[PD] wireless audio from Pd to PA system (katja)

Fri Mar 1 21:24:02 CET 2013

Apparently, Line 6 managed to build a digital 2.4 GHz wireless with <4 ms
latency, the Relay G30, G50 etc . They do not write it in the specs, but
most users don't notice latency and when they do, their support is speaking
of latency as low as that:

http://line6.com/support/thread/33898

This weekend I will do some WiFi experiments and see how fast it can go
locally, using mrpeach udp and tcp classes. If it works, one could use a
wireless router which has no other task than routing Pd audio, and the
computer at the receiving end could be a cheap headless board with no other
task than receiving Pd audio and converting it to analog. Together the
receiving device could be the size of a weight-watcher's lunch box, while
at the transmitter side the computer's built-in stuff is used. Maybe I'm a
bit naive here, anyway I'll report results from experiments.

Katja

On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 2:14 PM, richard duckworth
<richduckworth at yahoo.com>wrote:

> OMG - that's really high! Maybe Tranz have a belt holder solution - they
> do look kind of bulky though! Maybe worth dropping them a line, see if
> they'll help the Pd community
>
>
> Rich Duckworth
> Lecturer in Music Technology
> Department of Music
> House 5
> Trinity College
> Dublin 2
> Ireland
> Tel 353 1 896 1500
>
> "Digital?
> Is that the thing where they take a good old sine wave and they chop it up
> into little bits?" --- Rupert Neve
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* katja <katjavetter at gmail.com>
> *To:* Antoine Villeret <antoine.villeret at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* richard duckworth <richduckworth at yahoo.com>; "pd-list at iem.at" <
> pd-list at iem.at>
> *Sent:* Friday, 1 March 2013, 13:12
> *Subject:* Re: [PD] wireless audio from Pd to PA system (katja)
>
> Found more info about TI's PurePath wireless. Latency of wireless
> transmission is 768 samples minimum. Added to this must be the latencies of
> ad/da conversion.
>
> http://e2e.ti.com/support/low_power_rf/f/382/t/110331.aspx
>
> Forget about it, this concept is only useful for home entertainment.
>
> Katja
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 1:19 PM, katja <katjavetter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone for your answers.
>
> The case is unconventional because a stereo line signal must be sent from
> the computer. Professional wireless systems assume mic or instrument.
> Consumer systems do transmit stereo signal, but without bothering too much
> about latency.
>
> Frankly, I did not expect the difficulty to find a good solution.
> Initially I wanted the wearable computer for a music video which is to be
> recorded live with sounds from natural objects. I bought the FM transmitter
> so my cameraman will be able to hear the music while he's filming. For this
> purpose it is ideal. Then I thought it would be good to use the computer in
> it's wearable mode for public performance. I figured that one of the many
> wireless solutions would suit the purpose, but didn't reckon with the
> unusual requirements.
>
> Further searching brought me to a new technology 'PurePath' from Texas
> Instruments. It has a range comparable with WiFi (30m), while it seems to
> work with paired devices as in Bluetooth. I haven't seen consumer products
> with this technology, but development kits are available. A rather
> convincing demo is here:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YsnZQUfVGs
>
> If this system can work with low latency it could be perfect for wireless
> Pd.
>
> Katja
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Antoine Villeret <
> antoine.villeret at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> hello,
>
> those are good for what they have been designed for and it depends on what
> you mean by "exellent sound quality"
>
> I've made few tests on those few years ago and the bandwidth could be good
> enough to transmit guitar/bass signal but nothing else for me
>
> +
> a
>
>
> --
> do it yourself
> http://antoine.villeret.free.fr
>
>
> 2013/2/28 richard duckworth <richduckworth at yahoo.com>
>
>  Hi Katja
> one of these would do it - check with Thomann tech support for gain issues
> (these are Instrument Level input) They should be fine however as active
> guitar pickups (like heavy style EMG pickups) output quite high levels.
> These type of wireless systems tend to be very rugged, have excellent sound
> quality and long battery life - and you'll want these things.
>
> http://www.thomann.de/ie/cat.html?gf=wireless_for_guitar_bass&oa=pra
>
>
>
> Rich Duckworth
> Lecturer in Music Technology
> Department of Music
> House 5
> Trinity College
> Dublin 2
> Ireland
> Tel 353 1 896 1500
>
> "Digital?
> Is that the thing where they take a good old sine wave and they chop it up
> into little bits?" --- Rupert Neve
>   ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:53:43 +0100
> From: katja <katjavetter at gmail.com>
> Subject: [PD] wireless audio from Pd to PA system
> To: pd-list <pd-list at iem.at>
> Message-ID:
>     <CAFY0eapPSKfw+gVaxuTr7exHqLiG+pTdu8Rk6SNTraLiys2Msg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> For a wearable live performance computer, I am looking into the
> options of sending wireless audio from Pd to a PA sound system and
> other listeners.
>
> In a first experiment I've tried a Linex FM transmitter. Audio quality
> is good enough, and FM transmitters do not introduce latency. This
> option is cheap and flexible, as the signal can be received by simple
> radio's, which are even built into cell phones and media players. I
> would need to boost the transmission a bit to make it more reliable.
> This will of course make the equipment illegal. Even then, the risk
> that someone else is transmitting a stronger signal on the channel can
> not be excluded.
>
> Another option could be to send audio over Wifi. This would require
> WLAN to be available, and one extra computer (with audio interface) as
> a receiver. To avoid extra latency the audio should be sent
> uncompressed, like [udpsend~] / [udpreceive~] can do it. This has the
> risk of packet loss and serious dropouts.
>
> I've been searching for 2.4 GHz wireless music receivers and found
> things like this:
> http://www.sitecom.com/en/wireless-music-streamer/wl-061/p/203. They
> seem to act like external soundcards for your computer. In Linux
> though I've never managed to properly connect multiple soundcards with
> Pd (in OSX it's easy using the Aggregate Device Editor from Audio MIDI
> Setup). Also I guess these devices introduce huge latency. With audio
> over bluetooth headsets I've experienced latencies up to a second.
>
> Does anyone use a satisfactory method in practice, to send audio from
> Pd without wires?
>
> Thanks,
> Katja
>
>
>
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