[PD] wireless audio from Pd to PA system (katja)

Phil Stone pkstone at ucdavis.edu
Fri Mar 1 21:34:18 CET 2013


These Line 6 units are well respected in the electric bass world, 
especially considering their moderate price. I think bass players 
appreciate tight timing, and the low lag may be one reason these units 
are popular. Also, they have proven to be rugged enough to be 
"road-worthy". They can also model the hi-frequency lossiness of cords, 
though that seems of dubious value in your case.


Phil


On 3/1/13 12:24 PM, katja wrote:
> Apparently, Line 6 managed to build a digital 2.4 GHz wireless with <4 
> ms latency, the Relay G30, G50 etc . They do not write it in the 
> specs, but most users don't notice latency and when they do, their 
> support is speaking of latency as low as that:
>
> http://line6.com/support/thread/33898
>
> This weekend I will do some WiFi experiments and see how fast it can 
> go locally, using mrpeach udp and tcp classes. If it works, one could 
> use a wireless router which has no other task than routing Pd audio, 
> and the computer at the receiving end could be a cheap headless board 
> with no other task than receiving Pd audio and converting it to 
> analog. Together the receiving device could be the size of a 
> weight-watcher's lunch box, while at the transmitter side the 
> computer's built-in stuff is used. Maybe I'm a bit naive here, anyway 
> I'll report results from experiments.
>
> Katja
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 2:14 PM, richard duckworth 
> <richduckworth at yahoo.com <mailto:richduckworth at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>     OMG - that's really high! Maybe Tranz have a belt holder solution
>     - they do look kind of bulky though! Maybe worth dropping them a
>     line, see if they'll help the Pd community
>
>     Rich Duckworth
>     Lecturer in Music Technology
>     Department of Music
>     House 5
>     Trinity College
>     Dublin 2
>     Ireland
>     Tel 353 1 896 1500
>
>     "Digital?
>     Is that the thing where they take a good old sine wave and they
>     chop it up into little bits?" --- Rupert Neve
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* katja <katjavetter at gmail.com <mailto:katjavetter at gmail.com>>
>     *To:* Antoine Villeret <antoine.villeret at gmail.com
>     <mailto:antoine.villeret at gmail.com>>
>     *Cc:* richard duckworth <richduckworth at yahoo.com
>     <mailto:richduckworth at yahoo.com>>; "pd-list at iem.at
>     <mailto:pd-list at iem.at>" <pd-list at iem.at <mailto:pd-list at iem.at>>
>     *Sent:* Friday, 1 March 2013, 13:12
>     *Subject:* Re: [PD] wireless audio from Pd to PA system (katja)
>
>     Found more info about TI's PurePath wireless. Latency of wireless
>     transmission is 768 samples minimum. Added to this must be the
>     latencies of ad/da conversion.
>
>     http://e2e.ti.com/support/low_power_rf/f/382/t/110331.aspx
>
>     Forget about it, this concept is only useful for home entertainment.
>
>     Katja
>
>
>     On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 1:19 PM, katja <katjavetter at gmail.com
>     <mailto:katjavetter at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Thanks everyone for your answers.
>
>         The case is unconventional because a stereo line signal must
>         be sent from the computer. Professional wireless systems
>         assume mic or instrument. Consumer systems do transmit stereo
>         signal, but without bothering too much about latency.
>
>         Frankly, I did not expect the difficulty to find a good
>         solution. Initially I wanted the wearable computer for a music
>         video which is to be recorded live with sounds from natural
>         objects. I bought the FM transmitter so my cameraman will be
>         able to hear the music while he's filming. For this purpose it
>         is ideal. Then I thought it would be good to use the computer
>         in it's wearable mode for public performance. I figured that
>         one of the many wireless solutions would suit the purpose, but
>         didn't reckon with the unusual requirements.
>
>         Further searching brought me to a new technology 'PurePath'
>         from Texas Instruments. It has a range comparable with WiFi
>         (30m), while it seems to work with paired devices as in
>         Bluetooth. I haven't seen consumer products with this
>         technology, but development kits are available. A rather
>         convincing demo is here:
>
>         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YsnZQUfVGs
>
>         If this system can work with low latency it could be perfect
>         for wireless Pd.
>
>         Katja
>
>
>
>
>         On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Antoine Villeret
>         <antoine.villeret at gmail.com
>         <mailto:antoine.villeret at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>             hello,
>
>             those are good for what they have been designed for and it
>             depends on what you mean by "exellent sound quality"
>
>             I've made few tests on those few years ago and the
>             bandwidth could be good enough to transmit guitar/bass
>             signal but nothing else for me
>
>             +
>             a
>
>
>             --
>             do it yourself
>             http://antoine.villeret.free.fr
>             <http://antoine.villeret.free.fr/>
>
>
>             2013/2/28 richard duckworth <richduckworth at yahoo.com
>             <mailto:richduckworth at yahoo.com>>
>
>                 Hi Katja
>                 one of these would do it - check with Thomann tech
>                 support for gain issues (these are Instrument Level
>                 input) They should be fine however as active guitar
>                 pickups (like heavy style EMG pickups) output quite
>                 high levels. These type of wireless systems tend to be
>                 very rugged, have excellent sound quality and long
>                 battery life - and you'll want these things.
>
>                 http://www.thomann.de/ie/cat.html?gf=wireless_for_guitar_bass&oa=pra
>
>
>                 Rich Duckworth
>                 Lecturer in Music Technology
>                 Department of Music
>                 House 5
>                 Trinity College
>                 Dublin 2
>                 Ireland
>                 Tel 353 1 896 1500
>
>                 "Digital?
>                 Is that the thing where they take a good old sine wave
>                 and they chop it up into little bits?" --- Rupert Neve
>                 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>                 Message: 3
>                 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:53:43 +0100
>                 From: katja <katjavetter at gmail.com
>                 <mailto:katjavetter at gmail.com>>
>                 Subject: [PD] wireless audio from Pd to PA system
>                 To: pd-list <pd-list at iem.at <mailto:pd-list at iem.at>>
>                 Message-ID:
>                 <CAFY0eapPSKfw+gVaxuTr7exHqLiG+pTdu8Rk6SNTraLiys2Msg at mail.gmail.com
>                 <mailto:pTdu8Rk6SNTraLiys2Msg at mail.gmail.com>>
>                 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>                 For a wearable live performance computer, I am looking
>                 into the
>                 options of sending wireless audio from Pd to a PA
>                 sound system and
>                 other listeners.
>
>                 In a first experiment I've tried a Linex FM
>                 transmitter. Audio quality
>                 is good enough, and FM transmitters do not introduce
>                 latency. This
>                 option is cheap and flexible, as the signal can be
>                 received by simple
>                 radio's, which are even built into cell phones and
>                 media players. I
>                 would need to boost the transmission a bit to make it
>                 more reliable.
>                 This will of course make the equipment illegal. Even
>                 then, the risk
>                 that someone else is transmitting a stronger signal on
>                 the channel can
>                 not be excluded.
>
>                 Another option could be to send audio over Wifi. This
>                 would require
>                 WLAN to be available, and one extra computer (with
>                 audio interface) as
>                 a receiver. To avoid extra latency the audio should be
>                 sent
>                 uncompressed, like [udpsend~] / [udpreceive~] can do
>                 it. This has the
>                 risk of packet loss and serious dropouts.
>
>                 I've been searching for 2.4 GHz wireless music
>                 receivers and found
>                 things like this:
>                 http://www.sitecom.com/en/wireless-music-streamer/wl-061/p/203.
>                 They
>                 seem to act like external soundcards for your
>                 computer. In Linux
>                 though I've never managed to properly connect multiple
>                 soundcards with
>                 Pd (in OSX it's easy using the Aggregate Device Editor
>                 from Audio MIDI
>                 Setup). Also I guess these devices introduce huge
>                 latency. With audio
>                 over bluetooth headsets I've experienced latencies up
>                 to a second.
>
>                 Does anyone use a satisfactory method in practice, to
>                 send audio from
>                 Pd without wires?
>
>                 Thanks,
>                 Katja
>
>
>
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