[PD] Pd Development "Reverse Kickstarter"

[Jonathan Wilkes]

On 05/14/2013 03:47 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
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> hi jonathan,
>
> great ideas!
>
> On 2013-05-13 23:26, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>> * adding a function to make it easy to parse comma-separated
>> A_GIMME args to an object as named args.  Thus for [someobject foo
>> 1 2 3, bar 1 2 3 4, blah bee], there should be a  function that can
>> be used inside of someobject_new for which the author can ask for
>> the "foo" args and retrieve "1 2 3" (maybe by returning the indices
>> to the first and last arg of "foo").  That will match the syntax of
>> message boxes and give external developers an easy and consistent
>> way to do named
> personally i would go for something much simpler when using comma-args:
>   [someobject foo 1 2 3, bar 42]
> would translate to something like
>
>   [preinitbang]
>   |
>   [bar 42(
>   |
>   [someobject foo 1 2 3]

Yes, that would definitely make it a lot easier.

Two initial reactions:
* in the current implementation, sending bad args to an object ends in a 
broken object.  But sending comma separated args would not.
* the law of clever laziness dictates that any external developed after 
such a change will simply refuse to accept any args at all.

Using your example:
1) Dev makes methods someobject_foo, someobject_bar, someobject_blah.
2) Dev starts to code someobject_new and realizes he/she needs to check 
the first arg of the A_GIMME against "foo",
"bar", and "blah".  (I assume ",bar 42" isn't part of argv.)
3) Dev already wrote that code in someobject_foo
4) Dev is lazy.
5) Dev is clever.
6) Dev accepts no args and tells users to just put a comma after the 
object name if they want args:

Thus:
[someobject, foo 1 2 3 4, bar 42]

will be the de facto standard for setting args in the new way. (Unless 
it's trivial like [float].)

I think [sigmund~] would have looked like that if it used 
comma-separated args.  Plus all the iemguis.

It's not terrible, but it's a little odd.  [someobject foo 1 2 3 4, bar 
42] looks to a user like [I_get_your_args "here is an arg," "here is 
another"] where [someobject, foo 1 2, bar 3 4] looks like [object1, 
object2 arg arg, object3 arg arg].

Of course I could be misunderstanding what you wrote.  Maybe you mean 
that "foo 1 2 3 4" are the positional args,
and they always come right after the object name as they do now. Either 
way [creatorname, method arg, method arg arg]
would be a common sight.

-Jonathan

>
>
> with [preinitbang] being executed immediately after the instantiation
> of [someobject], so it's guaranteed that [someobject] is not connected
> to anything yet (kind of the opposite of [loadbang]). [preinitbang] is
> only here for illustrative purposes, and shouldn't exist.
>
> it all boils down to sending initialization messages to an object
> right after it was created.
>
> the nice thing about this is, that it doesn't require *any* changes on
> the object's side in order to be able to use it out of the box in
> *most* cases.
>
> i've been thinking about implementing this for some time now (though i
> never found any time to do it)...i just wanted to through it into
> discussion before there are several competing uses of comma-separated
> A_GIMME args.
>
> fgmasdr
> IOhannes
>
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