[PD] spectral mapping, anyone?

Tue Nov 26 20:10:32 CET 2013

well, let me tell you how I did it, I can send some of my last work, but,
as usual, needs some cleaning up and documenting.

But basically I'm using [sigmund~], then getting "tracks" output to use all
the partial information to feed an oscillator bank for resynthesis. This is
pretty much what you can call a phase vocoder, hence you can tweak with it
and mess around with partials.

I also have a patch where you can control the partials individually and
very arbitrarily.

So, for spectral mapping, what I do is I try to map all the harmonic
relationship from partials and "detune" them according to a different
"harmonic series".

It's a lot of work getting all of the data mapped and in order, then apply
the math and stuff. It's also tricky because you need the right tuning of
[sigmund~] to get better results according to the kind of musical audio
signal that is coming through...

Anyway, anyone got a better idea than that?

I think that if you use FFT you will go crazy trying yo get this right, and
I assume that [sigmund~] does work in the best way for this and it is based
on FFT anywy (Am I right?).

Cheers

2013/11/26 peiman khosravi <peimankhosravi at gmail.com>

> Hello,
>
> Yes, your description of warp is correct.
>
> Partial detection is more tricky because often the energy in 4 or more FFT
> bins amounts to one partial. So firstly, you need to derive the partials
> from the FFT data, then you need to quantise the partials' frequencies.
>
> One possible cheat would be to trace the loudest FFT-bins and then
> transfer their energy to the bins whose frequencies are nearest to the
> harmonics of a given fundamental.
>
> If I'm not mistaken, at a sampling rate of 44100 and an FFT size of 4096,
> the frequency of bin 10 would be calculated as (44100/4096)*10=107.66. Just
> note that only FFT-size/2+1 bins are usable. That's the Nyquist frequency
> (half of the sampling frequency). If you take 107.66 as your fundamental
> (and zero all the bins below that) then you can do the following:
>
> For each analysis window...
> 1- Detect the next FFT bin whose magnitude is above a certain threshold
> 2- Transfer the frequency and amplitude content of this bin to the nearest
> harmonic of the fundamental. So for input bin 15 (and a fundamental
> frequency of 107.66) this would be bin 20. The bin number to frequency
> mapping is linear so it's easy to calculate.
>
> Even, using fiddle~, you can get the fundamental frequency from the input
> and have it change dynamically from window to window.
>
> You're likely to get some bubbly artefacts thought, but once you have a
> basic working patch you should be able to fine tune it. So you may want to
> group the bins so that you transfer not just the energy in one bin but also
> the bins around it. You might also want to do some averaging of the
> amplitude of 6 windows or so to avoid rapidly changing values, before you
> pass the signal into a threshold detector. I can do this in Csound but I'm
> not that familiar with how FFT works in PD and I don't have a patch that
> does this. If I get the time I might make one next weekend though and post
> it here.
>
> P
>
>
>
>
> *www.peimankhosravi.co.uk <http://www.peimankhosravi.co.uk> || RSS Feed
> <http://peimankhosravi.co.uk/miscposts.rss> || Concert News
> <http://spectralkimia.wordpress.com/>*
>
>
> On 26 November 2013 11:48, Eran Sachs <eransachs at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Peiman,
>> It works great! I've been messing various sounds all day now, plus
>> there's a thing in my computer with Barry Vercoe's name on it which I find
>> oddly elevating.
>> However, if I understand the wrap function correctly, it substitutes bin
>> values for values of other bins through whatever function you apply. But
>> the bins are still all derived from the FFT procedure. Or am I missing
>> something there?
>>
>> What I would like to do is to move from bins to partials, so that they
>> are essentially mapped to harmonic overtones of a given fundamental
>> according to nearest match. Like a clever phase-vocoder Autotune of some
>> kind.
>>
>> Is there a way to do that, to the best of anyone's knowledge?
>>
>> Much obliged,
>> E.
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:12:50 +0000
>>
>> Subject: Re: [PD] spectral mapping, anyone?
>> From: peimankhosravi at gmail.com
>> To: eransachs at hotmail.com
>> CC: porres at gmail.com; jaime.oliver2 at gmail.com; pd-list at iem.at
>>
>> yes csound6 should work on windows too as far as I know.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *www.peimankhosravi.co.uk <http://www.peimankhosravi.co.uk> || RSS Feed
>> <http://peimankhosravi.co.uk/miscposts.rss> || Concert News
>> <http://spectralkimia.wordpress.com/>*
>>
>>
>> On 24 November 2013 22:06, Eran Sachs <eransachs at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Peiman.
>> Alas, I'm living the life of a PC/Windows user. AFAICT, no csound6?
>> Z
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 20:27:39 +0000
>>
>> Subject: Re: [PD] spectral mapping, anyone?
>> From: peimankhosravi at gmail.com
>> To: eransachs at hotmail.com
>> CC: porres at gmail.com; jaime.oliver2 at gmail.com; pd-list at iem.at
>>
>>
>> With spectral warping you can do any frequency-based manipulation,
>> depending on the transfer function. I have one for pd but it requires
>> Csound to be installed and a couple of other externals. See attached. On an
>> intel mac and with pd vanilla 4.5.3/4 this should just work out of the box
>> as long as you have csound 6 installed.
>>
>> P
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *www.peimankhosravi.co.uk <http://www.peimankhosravi.co.uk> || RSS Feed
>> <http://peimankhosravi.co.uk/miscposts.rss> || Concert News
>> <http://spectralkimia.wordpress.com/>*
>>
>>
>> On 24 November 2013 20:12, Eran Sachs <eransachs at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> oops, I messed up the names. sorry. Once more, with feeling:
>>
>> Josep,
>> Making harmonic sounds sound inharmonic can be down with spectral
>> shifting. Try looking at Hilbert~ or at spec2_shift~ on extended.
>>
>> But Alexandre, I'd also would be interested in stuff that can manipulate
>> the spectrum.
>> I also made a little graphic control to all the cross-synthesis objects
>> in FFTease. if anyone is interested I can post.
>>
>> A few years ago I tried to replicate the technique that Trevor Wishart
>> refers to as "Spectral Focusing", namely - one that moves the other way -
>> from inharmonic to harmonic sonds, by moving from bins to partials (a
>> little like FFTease's pvtune~, but moving bins to nearest matching
>> partial).
>>
>> I'm still looking for such an object. Does anyone have any suggestions?
>>
>> Zax.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: eransachs at hotmail.com
>> To: porres at gmail.com; jaime.oliver2 at gmail.com
>> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 21:58:50 +0200
>>
>> CC: pd-list at iem.at
>> Subject: Re: [PD] spectral mapping, anyone?
>>
>> Alexandre,
>> Making harmonic sounds sound inharmonic can be down with spectral
>> shifting. Try looking at Hilbert~ or at spec2_shift~ on extended.
>>
>> But Jaime, I'd also would be interested in that.
>> A few years ago I tried to replicate the technique that Trevor Wishart
>> refers to as "Spectral Focusing", namely - one that moves the other way -
>> from inharmonic to harmonic sonds, by moving from bins to partials (a
>> little like FFTease's pvtune~, but moving bins to nearest matching
>> partial).
>>
>> I'm still looking for such an object. Does anyone have any suggestions?
>>
>> Zax.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 01:05:29 -0200
>> From: porres at gmail.com
>> To: jaime.oliver2 at gmail.com
>> CC: pd-list at iem.at
>> Subject: Re: [PD] spectral mapping, anyone?
>>
>> Hi, I'm Alexandre, I can send you stuff
>>
>> cheers
>>
>>
>> 2013/11/11 Jaime E Oliver <jaime.oliver2 at gmail.com>
>>
>> These are older, but I understand E. Lyon might re-release them?
>>
>> http://www.somasa.qub.ac.uk/~elyon/LyonSoftware/MaxMSP/FFTease/
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2013, at 7:23 AM, Jeppi Jeppi <jeppiot at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> just looking for some ready to be used spectral mapping effects
>> implemented in pd, anything available?
>> Specifically, just a way to slightly remap harmonics to make pitched
>> sounds inharmonic.
>> There is a paper by Alexandre
>> http://www.uni-weimar.de/medien/wiki/images/Dissonance_Model_Toolbox_in_Pure_Data.pdf but
>> I couldn't find the link to the sources.
>>
>>
>> Many thanks in advance!
>> Josep m
>>
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