[PD] Is open source better?

Pall Thayer pallthay at gmail.com
Mon Feb 10 19:08:25 CET 2014


Hi Jonathan,
Thanks. That's exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. I thought WebPD
was dead. Nice to see it alive and kicking.




On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika at yahoo.com>wrote:

> To answer your last question: have a look at webpd:
> https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd
>
> There's a simple demo patch here:
> http://sebpiq.github.io/WebPd/sound-check/sound-check.html
>
> That's Pd's basic audio engine and message passing system running in
> javascript.  So in terms of open source, the efficiency is undeniable.  To
> run Max/MSP in a web page, they'd have to figure out some complex way to
> protect their proprietary code while still making it possible to make
> sounds by adding a script in the html.  The only practical thing I could
> think of is running a centralized service, but again that costs money and
> maintenance where a decentralized lib like webpd runs on the user's device.
>
> Addressing the oddity of using proprietary software (IOS) to point out the
> benefits of open source:
>
> Unfortunately the open source definition was designed to subtly hide the
> ethical reasons for doing open source development.  The reasoning for this
> was quite straightforward-- "share with your neighbor" doesn't attract
> business dollars.  So open source advocates focus on efficiency, like the
> ability to plug a 3-clause BSD-licensed library into just about any device
> you want, even a device that is locked down and requires the final app to
> be proprietary.
>
> This is equivalent to teaching the scientific method, but downplaying the
> importance of reproducibility for some seemingly practical purpose.  If
> enough scientists are weak on such a fundamental aspect of their job due to
> bad education it will degrade their ability to carry out meaningful,
> reproducible experiments.
>
> So open source advocates can't have it both ways.  If they purposely
> exclude the golden rule and "user freedom" from their marketing materials
> because it's such a drag, I don't see how they can complain when the
> efficiency of their dev model takes users and business to places the
> initiative didn't want them to end up.  Whether it's Google's centralized
> services or Apple and Android smartphones that spy on the user, you can't
> fight back if you aren't willing to state the fundamental principle that
> users must be free to determine how the devices they own actually operate.
>
> If anyone wants to read a principled statement on user freedom, it's here:
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
>
> -Jonathan
>
>
>
>   On Sunday, February 9, 2014 9:24 PM, Simon Wise <simonzwise at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  On 10/02/14 11:53, Pall Thayer wrote:
> > I'm giving a presentation this week. In a way, it's a counter argument
> to a
> > recent presentation on Max/MSP. One of the things that I want to
> highlight
> > is the "open sourceness" of PD. libpd presents a very good argument and
> > I'll be highlighting a project I was involved with that produced an IOS
> app
> > that used libpd as the audio engine. Is there anything else I should be
> > considering besides the obvious points of open source being open source.
> > Concrete examples of PD's open sourceness trumping proprietary
> technologies?
>
> IOs is an odd choice for talking about open source when the only way to
> install
> such an app in a device (without jailbreaking it or paying the developer
> tithe)
> is by licensing the binary closed source (on their terms) to Apple to
> distribute
> via their platform-monopoly app store, which will not distribute the
> sources or
> GPL or LGPL apps?
>
> Certainly licenses such as libpd's BSD like one do allow reuse of the code
> in
> any app, open source or otherwise, but then is that use still open
> source???
>
>
> Simon
>
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-- 
*****************************
Pall Thayer
artist
http://pallthayer.dyndns.org
*****************************
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