[PD] Fear and Loathing on the Pd list - was Re: ANN: New Pd-L2Ork x86_64 and Raspberry Pi 20140319 release candidate

Julian Brooks jbeezez at gmail.com
Mon Mar 24 16:00:23 CET 2014

And of course that should have read:
IOhannes - please just carry on.

(unconscious spelling mistakes piss me right off)


On 24 March 2014 14:33, Julian Brooks <jbeezez at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ouch
> More bad vibes from our list and even more seems to be simmering and
> emanating from within our community at the moment.  What is up with this? I
> dunno.
> I must confess to also having side-stepped pd-announce with a few things
> over the past year or so and jumping direct to pd-list so something's not
> functioning correctly with all this (quite often perhaps it's just the
> delay in sending and waiting for it to appear that makes the poster jumpy
> about it getting through IME).
> Anyways, I'll bite.
> Ico, please keep posting stuff - it's interesting and good to be kept
> abreast.
> IOHannes - please just carry on:)
> In peace,
> Jb
> On 24 March 2014 13:51, Ivica Ico Bukvic <ico at vt.edu> wrote:
>> > On 2014-03-22 17:03, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
>> > > Apologies for x-posting.
>> >
>> > i seem to remember that i have asked you this question multiple times
>> > in private, but never received an answer: is there *any* reason to
>> > make your announcements via pd-list instead of pd-announce [1]?
>> > all emails to pd-announce are forwarded to pd-list, but some people
>> > are only subscribed to pd-announce (as they are not interested in
>> > day-to-day discussion).
>> ...IOhannes, indeed we've had discussions in the past to the point where I
>> believe no matter what I do will be adequate in your eyes. Your replies to
>> anything I post to this list teem with negativity, and a good portion of
>> the
>> time are off-topic (which makes me wonder how does that fit into the
>> mailing
>> list netiquette?). Yet, knowing you from our in-person conversations, I
>> know
>> you are a lot nicer than what your posts to this list make you look like.
>> >
>> > btw, anybody can post to pd-announce (all emails get manual moderation
>> > and are allowed if they are a proper announcement "related to Pd
>> > somehow").
>> And yet, I had those rejected as well, although I am not sure if pd-l2ork
>> announcement is considered related to Pd... It is conceivably possible
>> that
>> this was a case of having bunch of mailing lists in the TO: header in the
>> same email which is also known to land them in the admin pile (depending
>> on
>> the mailing list configuration), but given that all pd-announce emails are
>> (AFAICT) moderated, what escapes me is why would one reject this merely on
>> the principle and then in turn double the work both for the poster and
>> themselves?
>> >
>> >
>> > > (resending because apparently the original was rejected because I
>> > > was "not subscribed?"...)
>> >
>> > no.
>> > it was rejected because the mailinglist has a built-in cross-posting
>> > reject rule. see [2].
>> First of all, if this is the case, then your mailing list is not
>> configured
>> properly as it is giving a report that is false/misleading. Second, I
>> think
>> if this is an automatic bounce, it should happen instantaneously (which
>> was
>> not the case). If it is left for review of list admins (and hence the
>> delay
>> in response), then the trouble you went to reject the post could've been
>> simply redirected by seeing from who the email came and what its purpose
>> is,
>> rather than creating even more work for everyone involved. Sure, that
>> introduces exceptions, but in the end I feel it is a nice way of showing
>> appreciation for those who went through the trouble of contributing to the
>> community as I am sure you'll agree writing an announcement and providing
>> free online resources requires a lot more time than reading a subject and
>> ticking the "approve" checkbox...
>> I also think this is extraneous (assuming the reject is automated). Like
>> yourself, I manage over dozen mailing lists among many other things that
>> keep me busy and even I choose to keep those kinds of posts for review
>> because I am aware people when they announce things don't want to send
>> dozen
>> same emails but simply one. At the same time, I also don't want to create
>> extra work for you or anyone else, so to cut my monologue short, if you
>> and/or the community so desire, I will stop posting any further
>> announcements on any pd list, so as not to annoy you (and possibly
>> others).
>> After all, you manage the list, and life is too short to spend time
>> arguing
>> over things like these...
>> Please understand I won't reply to any further discussions on this
>> matter...
>> Best wishes,
>> Ico
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