[PD] udoo board sound issues

Pierre Massat via Pd-list pd-list at lists.iem.at
Fri Jun 6 11:28:31 CEST 2014


Hi,
I wonder whether this relatively poor performance has something to do with
the fact that this soundcard is powered through USB. I know that this is a
big issue on the RPi, so perhaps should get a powered USB hub and give it
another try.
Cheers,

Pierre.


2014-06-06 11:18 GMT+02:00 Alexandros Drymonitis via Pd-list <
pd-list at lists.iem.at>:

> Coming back to this thread after some time, but thought it's better than
> starting a new thread.
> I'm testing Pd-0.43-2 (from Debian's repos) on the Debian hard floating
> point image provided by Udoo's website, with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 sound
> card (class compliant). I've been doing some tests to see what's the
> optimal performance I can get, and for now I'm getting no drop outs with a
> 44.1kHz sampling rate, 30ms delay and 128 block size.
> I tried to follow this wiki
> <http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Low_latency_howto> page to
> set up low latency, but it's a bit over my head. Since ALSA is already
> built, I started from here
> <http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Low_latency_howto#PAM>, but I
> can only understand the first step, below that I'm at loss. Has anyone
> tried to set this up, has anyone had better results (higher sampling rates,
> smaller delay)?
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:06 AM, Dan Wilcox <danomatika at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ah cool thanks! This is actually the same issue I saw when I briefly
>> tried the hard float image. I'll pick up another sd card and try again ...
>>
>> On Mar 24, 2014, at 5:01 PM, Simon Iten <itensimon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> nevermind, found the solution. here it is..
>>
>> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2012-09/097892.html
>>
>> cheers
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Simon Iten <itensimon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> hey dan and list,
>>>
>>> i gave pd on the debian hardfloat image a try and can not run it. it
>>> compiles just fine. this is what i get on the console...
>>>
>>> debian at udoo-debian-hfp:~$ pd -verbose
>>> Pd-0.45.4 ("") compiled 14:17:43 Mar 24 2014
>>> port 5400
>>> TCL_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tcl/library"
>>> TK_LIBRARY="/usr/local/lib/pd/lib/tk/library"   wish
>>> "/usr/local/lib/pd/tcl//pd-gui.tcl" 5400
>>> Waiting for connection request...
>>> /usr/local/lib/pd/bin/pd-watchdog
>>> watchdog: signaling pd...
>>> watchdog: signaling pd...
>>> watchdog: signaling pd...
>>> watchdog: signaling pd...
>>> watchdog: signaling pd...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> then a watchdog-signaling loop...
>>>
>>> this also happens with the version installed via synaptic.
>>>
>>> any thoughts?
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Dan Wilcox <danomatika at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, I wanted to use the hard float image but I was under time
>>>> pressure and more things seemed to work out of the box with the Linaro one.
>>>> I'll have more time to revisit it later.
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:46 PM, Simon Iten <itensimon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hmm,
>>>>
>>>> well to me 12ms is way to much. but then again i play a lot of fast
>>>> attack notes in up-tempo pieces :-)
>>>>
>>>> thanks for your notes anyway, they helped a lot! and write back when
>>>> you tried with the debian hardfloat image. i tried it for a short time and
>>>> it was not very stable with pd. but then again i did not try a lot of
>>>> things to fix this.
>>>>
>>>> cheers
>>>> On 15 Mar 2014, at 13:10, Dan Wilcox <danomatika at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Check this page:
>>>> http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable
>>>>
>>>> I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms.
>>>>
>>>> The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms.
>>>> Acceptable latency is 12 ms.
>>>>
>>>> Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig,
>>>> both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for being unscientific about it.
>>>>
>>>> enohp ym morf tnes
>>>> --------------
>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>> danomatika.com
>>>> robotcowboy.com
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten <itensimon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects
>>>> that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb
>>>> stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally
>>>> different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can
>>>> adapt.
>>>> but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two
>>>> attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones
>>>> mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb
>>>> soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that
>>>> mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little)
>>>> latency on the unaffected part of the signal.
>>>>
>>>> no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to
>>>> follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting,
>>>> that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between
>>>> your steps :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox <danomatika at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If
>>>> so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar -> effects
>>>> -> amp latencies are already closer to 20ms.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts
>>>> etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of
>>>> town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no
>>>> promises.
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten <itensimon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hi dan,
>>>>
>>>> tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at
>>>> 12ms i start to get clicks here and there…
>>>>
>>>> your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not
>>>> understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo
>>>> it anyway?
>>>>
>>>> thanks again
>>>>
>>>> simon
>>>>
>>>> On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox <danomatika at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the
>>>> pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I
>>>> could use a clone right about now :P
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler <glitchpop at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT
>>>> but, Dan, love your work (that "onward to mars patch" is awesome) thanks
>>>> for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the
>>>> list, celebrate what we make. =)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox <danomatika at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit
>>>>> backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/
>>>>>
>>>>> Media of the backpack in use
>>>>> https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 &
>>>>> https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different
>>>>> edit soon)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox <danomatika at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run
>>>>> scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock <jamie at jamiebullock.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Dan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide
>>>>> nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to
>>>>> see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people
>>>>> will want to be doing a similar thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> All best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox <danomatika at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Heres a trim of my notes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already):
>>>>>
>>>>> sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
>>>>>   sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >>
>>>>> /etc/security/limits.conf'
>>>>>   sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
>>>>>
>>>>> I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself
>>>>> (from
>>>>> http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways-to-fix-your-audio
>>>>> ):
>>>>>
>>>>>     echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.conf
>>>>>
>>>>> Also add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's
>>>>> running on login:
>>>>>
>>>>>     # kill pulse audio if it was spawned
>>>>>     pulseaudio -k
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using
>>>>> the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard:
>>>>>
>>>>> pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5
>>>>>
>>>>> Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the
>>>>> first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware & plugin) & 2-3 (HDMI
>>>>> audio hardware & plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten <itensimon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> without jack i should add...
>>>>> On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten <itensimon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> hey dan,
>>>>>
>>>>> unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the
>>>>> infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with
>>>>> -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the
>>>>> cheap card from dx.com just does not work properly with udoo.
>>>>> but please post your setup.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> On 09 Mar 2014, at 22:26, Dan Wilcox <danomatika at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried my both Roland Edirol UA-25 & UA-25EX and both work great.
>>>>> The dedicated USB controller makes these guys work as compared to an RPI
>>>>> where I can't get full duplex without tons of dropouts. I'm using a Linaro
>>>>> install which boots to the console and runs the PD through scripting. The
>>>>> speed is great as compared to my old wearable computer. 4 cores makes a
>>>>> difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had to recompile my kernel to add midi support, but that's working
>>>>> great. It's not too bad, actually. I also built Pd-vanilal from source
>>>>> which was pretty easy using ./configure + make. I also have a script which
>>>>> fetches externals and builds/installs the agains vanilla so I have the few
>>>>> externals I need.
>>>>>
>>>>> As with my previous experience running Pd + embedded Ubuntu, I get
>>>>> great performance with RT permissions, the -rt startup flag, and ALSA. Jack
>>>>> is needless overheard unless you want to work with other Jack-enabeld apps.
>>>>> Same with X windows, although my setup was running great in X with pd +
>>>>> ALSA in testing.
>>>>>
>>>>> From your description, it sounds like your main issue is jack & pd are
>>>>> probably not running in realtime.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can sent you my install notes if you want (or put them online, as
>>>>> I've been meaning to). Also, are based in the NE within driving distance to
>>>>> Pittsburgh? We could do a patching circle/UDOO setup afternoon :D
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-request at iem.at wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> *From: *Miller Puckette <msp at ucsd.edu>
>>>>>  *Subject: **Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues*
>>>>> *Date: *March 9, 2014 at 5:07:54 PM EDT
>>>>> *To: *Simon Iten <itensimon at gmail.com>
>>>>>  *Cc: *PD list <pd-list at iem.at>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> H iSimon -
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't tried any but the built-in yet but I have a few USB
>>>>> interfaces
>>>>> around here that I can try.  I'm about to go on an intense trip but
>>>>> should
>>>>> be able to do some tests when I get back, assuming nobody else has
>>>>> figured
>>>>> this out first.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers
>>>>> Miller
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 09, 2014 at 09:57:45PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> hey list,
>>>>>
>>>>> does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a
>>>>> usb-soundcard? should be very compact.
>>>>> i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results
>>>>> (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl)
>>>>> this is on the ubuntu version from udoo.
>>>>> are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i
>>>>> thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is
>>>>> no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing
>>>>> something?
>>>>> is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like
>>>>> the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)?
>>>>>
>>>>> the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect)
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------
>>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>>> @danomatika
>>>>> danomatika.com
>>>>> robotcowboy.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --------
>>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>>> @danomatika
>>>>> danomatika.com
>>>>> robotcowboy.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --------
>>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>>> @danomatika
>>>>> danomatika.com
>>>>> robotcowboy.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --------
>>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>>> @danomatika
>>>>> danomatika.com
>>>>> robotcowboy.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Richie
>>>>
>>>> www.glitchpop.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  --------
>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>> @danomatika
>>>> danomatika.com
>>>> robotcowboy.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  --------
>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>> @danomatika
>>>> danomatika.com
>>>> robotcowboy.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  --------
>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>> @danomatika
>>>> danomatika.com
>>>> robotcowboy.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>  --------
>> Dan Wilcox
>> @danomatika
>> danomatika.com
>> robotcowboy.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pd-list at lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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>
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