[PD] pd-l2ork website was: Updated pd-extended

Ivica Bukvic ico at vt.edu
Tue Sep 23 19:22:25 CEST 2014

It is already linked from that site.
On Sep 23, 2014 12:27 PM, "Dan Wilcox" <danomatika at gmail.com> wrote:

> Maybe the software portal could be a subdomain or integrated on the
> pure-data.info site along with vanilla & extended.
> On Sep 23, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Ivica Bukvic <ico at vt.edu> wrote:
> True. It is trying to be to many things-- an ensemble and a software
> portal.
> On Sep 23, 2014 12:04 PM, "Dan Wilcox" <danomatika at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes, this is great news. I didn't mean to sound pessimistic earlier, just
>> realistic.
>> My 2cents, though is that the l2ork website is hard to navigate :D
>> On Sep 23, 2014, at 11:54 AM, Ivica Bukvic <ico at vt.edu> wrote:
>> Well, there is a concerted effort on the pd-l2ork side of things. We now
>> technically have 3 devs contributing code regularly to git and 3 additional
>> contributors.
>> On Sep 23, 2014 11:14 AM, "Dan Wilcox" <danomatika at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I had to bring up semantics because "developer" means alot of different
>>> things to alot of different people.
>>> Also, I didn't want to bring up vanilla versus non-vanilla, just
>>> pointing out that the number of people who could help Hans put out a new
>>> version of extended is rather low. IMO a languishing extended is bad news
>>> for Pd in general as it's the go to distribution for most people using Pd
>>> ... but that's probably for another debate. We all work on what's important
>>> to us, I'm just sad again to see that the priorities don't seem to match up
>>> with a concerted joint effort, at least as compared to my experience
>>> working with OpenFrameworks. But of course what's considered a "concerted,
>>> joint effort" is also up to interpretation :D
>>> Hopefully we'll have a development meet up at some point soon.
>>> I personally feel guilty seeing things like this come up because I have
>>> the *ability* to do it, but I don't have the time when trying to balance
>>> life, work, & art. Honestly, this is when I know I'm probably getting in
>>> too deep ...
>>> This is why I suggested "graduate students". At this point, up keep and
>>> versioning should be supported by some sort of institution, if possible,
>>> and by people who could be rotated in and out.
>>> On Sep 23, 2014, at 10:57 AM, Ivica Bukvic <ico at vt.edu> wrote:
>>> Well, I guess you can call me a "developer," whatever that means--I
>>> don't care that much about titles. Yet, I would argue that as far as low
>>> level stuff is concerned in recent years pd-l2ork has certainly pushed the
>>> envelope in terms of core development. Even the feature that has earned me
>>> the title in quotations delves so deep into the core that currently it
>>> cannot be implemented in either vanilla or extended without significant
>>> changes even though it retains full backwards compatibility. I would also
>>> argue it is essential and offers a slew of features that are unavailable in
>>> any other implementation of presets.
>>> Pd-l2ork's greatest deterrent is exclusivity to Linux, which was
>>> initially a conscious decision to allow for faster development while
>>> addressing the lack of manpower. But that is about to change once we
>>> complete port to Qt library. We already transitioned to Tkpath quite a
>>> while ago which allowed us to use a full SVG-based canvas, so I have no
>>> doubt we will be able to do this again. Once this is done, we won't have to
>>> circumnavigate exceptions Tk library requires in order to be compliant with
>>> different platforms and I would argue in turn that will result in faster
>>> development. So, if you are really interested in pushing the development of
>>> non-vanilla pd I think you should heed some of Jonathan's advice and look
>>> for ways how community can work together in combining the "best of" and
>>> engaging developers and "developers" alike who have shown dedication to the
>>> cause. But before that can be accomplished, the community should consider
>>> agreeing on design choices. For instance, pd-l2ork came into existence
>>> because it focuses on more nimble development at the expense of potential
>>> loss of backwards compatibility (even though after 4 years of development
>>> the only incompatibility we infatuated is correcting buggy positioning of
>>> iemgui  objects, which is cosmetic in nature) because a good chunk of that
>>> compatibility stems from buggy implementations that stuck around long
>>> enough that they became a part of the standard (e.g. iemgui's buggy
>>> positioning of objects that are arbitrarily offset from their x and y
>>> positions, as reported by the pd script), which is unfortunate.
>>> Best,
>>> Ico
>>> On Sep 23, 2014 9:21 AM, "Dan Wilcox" <danomatika at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I disagree. Your example lists what? 2 more developers? I'm talking
>>>> about "developers" as in people working the C code, build scripts, tcl/tk
>>>> etc aka people who could, theoretically, help push out a new Pd-extended
>>>> release. True, we have plenty of people working on externals, but this is a
>>>> problem for someone who can go deeper.
>>>> I still maintain that the number of low level developers to overall
>>>> users (non-developers) is relatively low.
>>>> On Sep 23, 2014, at 6:00 AM, pd-list-request at lists.iem.at wrote:
>>>> However, your description of the user/developer ratio doesn't ring true
>>>> to me.  There's actually a surplus of developers and development energy-- I
>>>> count two implementations of presets in the last year or two (in Pd-l2ork
>>>> and the Chocolate et Coffee lib) which are in addition to however many
>>>> already exist on svn and the Pd forum.
>>>> --------
>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>> @danomatika
>>>> danomatika.com
>>>> robotcowboy.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pd-list at lists.iem.at mailing list
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>>> --------
>>> Dan Wilcox
>>> @danomatika
>>> danomatika.com
>>> robotcowboy.com
>> --------
>> Dan Wilcox
>> @danomatika
>> danomatika.com
>> robotcowboy.com
> --------
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
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