[PD] Extending Vanilla (was Cyclone help patches & issue list)

Alexandre Torres Porres porres at gmail.com
Thu Dec 18 03:33:39 CET 2014

Hello, I don't know if Hans is replaceable and I didn't mean to start a
thread about "replacing" him or even point to a new "extended"distro.

I just wanted to highlight what miller mentioned about people considering
working on a repository of external objects compatible to vanilla, and how
all extended libs should work on vanilla and that he was willing to help
make'm work in it.

I, for one, think that's good enough to work as an "extended" replacement,
while hans (or any other who'd replace him) carries on with pd-extended (or
some new distro).

As far as library management and maintenance goes. In my opinion, maybe
that shouldn't be a burden that someone has to carry alone. I don't believe
Hans vouched for being the one responsible for maintaining that much
libraries on his own. I believe he ended up doing so because the original
developers just didn't care anymore and abandoned it...

I have to say that's a hell of a bummer. And that I've had some experiences
trying to reach creators and maintainers about a bug on some extended
object and got not much help of something like "yeah, I know about it but I
don't have time to work on it".

I love the work Hans did with Pd extended, and still use it, but I'm critic
on how many libraries and objects are badly maintained, with bugs and not
that good documentation. There are also many redundanct objects. So can't
say it's such a great package of externals...

I know there are a few libraries I can't live without. Like, from the top
of my head there are: zexy, iemlib, cyclone... I'd be kinda done with these
few libraries.

In the scenario context we're discussing - of a repository of working
libraries - if whoever made a library that was on the repository and, for
some reason, it stopped working, I guess the creator should care to
maintain it. but if he doesn't, if it's open source and everything, maybe
someone else who cares would care to step in and deal with it.

But I have the idea that if a library is working fine as an external in
vanilla, it should normally keep working as such. And Miller is here waving
. And well, if it doesn't and nobody cares. Then it is crossed out of the
repository. Simple as that...

So, it's a whole different paradigm. It's not about building and releasing
a new distro. It's not about telling Miller what he should do with Vanilla.
And it should be pretty simple as I see it. Moreover, I could manifest the
opinion that that's the easy way and how it should be - a list of plugins,
nicely organised somewhere, for people to download and use it.

And no need for that much diplomacy. I think it should be open and free. If
people make some libraries and wanna to put it on the repository, just
let'em do it.

Well, that's my two cents


2014-12-17 18:08 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika at yahoo.com>:
> Who is going to replace Hans?
> Here's an incomplete list of the responsibilities such a person would have:
> * all the technical responsibilities of maintaining releasing software
> (whether that software is a collection of libraries or a full distro of Pd,
> the work required is still comparable)
> * maintaining the abandoned libs that users still need
> * responding to requests from new developers in a timely manner
> * being a leader.  For example, when someone asks a question whether doing
> X is feasible, you would give a clear and definitive answer based on where
> you think the project should go
> * being a diplomat.  After someone has done the work you encouraged them
> to do and Miller says he wants to take another decade to think of a better
> solution, you have to find a compromise that doesn't discourage the
> development effort (and create yet another unmaintained lib or patch/plugin
> for Vanilla)
> * generally encouraging development efforts of developers with various
> styles of communication and expectations for the software
> * working with developers like me who have essentially given up on trying
> to get improvements into Pd Vanilla.  (But I am happy to work with anyone
> willing to do all this work)
> -Jonathan
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