[PD] Extending Vanilla (was Cyclone help patches & issue list)

Alexandre Torres Porres porres at gmail.com
Thu Dec 18 05:36:50 CET 2014

>  guess the subject of the thread is misleading

agreed, sorry

2014-12-18 1:11 GMT-02:00 Jaime E Oliver <jaime.oliver2 at gmail.com>:
> Hi all,
> I guess the subject of the thread is misleading, perhaps we should be
> talking about an external repository rather than "extending" vanilla?
> I'd certainly be interested in contributing my own externals.
> best,
> Jaime
> On Dec 17, 2014, at 9:33 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Hello, I don't know if Hans is replaceable and I didn't mean to start a
> thread about "replacing" him or even point to a new "extended"distro.
> I just wanted to highlight what miller mentioned about people considering
> working on a repository of external objects compatible to vanilla, and how
> all extended libs should work on vanilla and that he was willing to help
> make'm work in it.
> I, for one, think that's good enough to work as an "extended" replacement,
> while hans (or any other who'd replace him) carries on with pd-extended (or
> some new distro).
> As far as library management and maintenance goes. In my opinion, maybe
> that shouldn't be a burden that someone has to carry alone. I don't believe
> Hans vouched for being the one responsible for maintaining that much
> libraries on his own. I believe he ended up doing so because the original
> developers just didn't care anymore and abandoned it...
> I have to say that's a hell of a bummer. And that I've had some
> experiences trying to reach creators and maintainers about a bug on some
> extended object and got not much help of something like "yeah, I know about
> it but I don't have time to work on it".
> I love the work Hans did with Pd extended, and still use it, but I'm
> critic on how many libraries and objects are badly maintained, with bugs
> and not that good documentation. There are also many redundanct objects. So
> can't say it's such a great package of externals...
> I know there are a few libraries I can't live without. Like, from the top
> of my head there are: zexy, iemlib, cyclone... I'd be kinda done with these
> few libraries.
> In the scenario context we're discussing - of a repository of working
> libraries - if whoever made a library that was on the repository and, for
> some reason, it stopped working, I guess the creator should care to
> maintain it. but if he doesn't, if it's open source and everything, maybe
> someone else who cares would care to step in and deal with it.
> But I have the idea that if a library is working fine as an external in
> vanilla, it should normally keep working as such. And Miller is here waving
> . And well, if it doesn't and nobody cares. Then it is crossed out of the
> repository. Simple as that...
> So, it's a whole different paradigm. It's not about building and releasing
> a new distro. It's not about telling Miller what he should do with Vanilla.
> And it should be pretty simple as I see it. Moreover, I could manifest the
> opinion that that's the easy way and how it should be - a list of plugins,
> nicely organised somewhere, for people to download and use it.
> And no need for that much diplomacy. I think it should be open and free.
> If people make some libraries and wanna to put it on the repository, just
> let'em do it.
> Well, that's my two cents
> Cheers
> 2014-12-17 18:08 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika at yahoo.com>:
>> Who is going to replace Hans?
>> Here's an incomplete list of the responsibilities such a person would
>> have:
>> * all the technical responsibilities of maintaining releasing software
>> (whether that software is a collection of libraries or a full distro of Pd,
>> the work required is still comparable)
>> * maintaining the abandoned libs that users still need
>> * responding to requests from new developers in a timely manner
>> * being a leader.  For example, when someone asks a question whether
>> doing X is feasible, you would give a clear and definitive answer based on
>> where you think the project should go
>> * being a diplomat.  After someone has done the work you encouraged them
>> to do and Miller says he wants to take another decade to think of a better
>> solution, you have to find a compromise that doesn't discourage the
>> development effort (and create yet another unmaintained lib or patch/plugin
>> for Vanilla)
>> * generally encouraging development efforts of developers with various
>> styles of communication and expectations for the software
>> * working with developers like me who have essentially given up on trying
>> to get improvements into Pd Vanilla.  (But I am happy to work with anyone
>> willing to do all this work)
>> -Jonathan
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