[PD] Nettles. Was: cyclone/maxmode functionality usage
Alexandre Torres Porres
porres at gmail.com
Fri Jun 12 16:34:26 CEST 2015
> I try to keep the current state of cyclone here:
> http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases/0.1-alpha55
> (never mind the 55, it wouldn't go away).
hmm, but I see it still has alpha55 there
great news about the rest
really excited about this update
2015-06-12 3:34 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan at xs4all.nl>:
> Hi Alexandre,
>
> > Howdy, maybe this got lost amongst the millions of message I've been
> > sending, sorry to insist, but I'm really curious about it.
> >
> > Moreover, as long as we're on it, I've been creating some abstractions
> > as clones of max objects, I was able to do most of these nestles, and
> > also [scale] / [scale~] and I just did [rect~] and [tri~]. I wonder if I
> > could propose them to be included in cyclone, or if it has to be objects.
>
> The last days I have been looking at what could be done with the
> original nettles. In the end it was quite simple to get them working as
> a library object and create a suitable help-patch. Both are checked in
> in svn, but the original cyclone build system will not build the
> library. Katja created a new makefile system as a drop-in replacement
> for the Pd-extended build system, which will be checked in soon.
>
> I will try to create new binary distributions, usable with the
> deken-plugin somewhere next week. These will contain the nettles. I try
> to keep the current state of cyclone here:
> http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases/0.1-alpha55 (never mind
> the 55, it wouldn't go away).
>
> Any object or abstraction that implements something present in Max(5)
> could be part of cyclone.
> >
> > Cheers
>
> Greetings,
>
> Fred Jan
> >
> > 2015-06-07 9:41 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com
> > <mailto:porres at gmail.com>>:
> >
> > yeah, I can't load these objects for some reason, I wonder why is
> > that, I'm on mac os and extended 42, any idea?
> >
> > I didn't know they were in cyclone... But I remember we discussed
> > about them, not all of them are part of zexy actually. Zexy's only
> > got 3 out of these, whixh are: <~, >~ and ==~
> >
> > It doesn't have the remaining 9 objects: !-, !/, !-~, !/~, !=~,
> > <=~, >=~, %~, +=~
> >
> > I think it's nice to have them, specially the [+=~] object which I
> > didn't know about.
> >
> > So, the [maxmode] object loads these other objects, huh? I tried
> > loading them with it and nothing happened.
> >
> > It seems weird to me that they have to depend on [maxmode], why
> > can't you just get their code and make it available outside
> [maxmode]?
> >
> > cheers
> >
> >
> > 2015-06-07 8:55 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan at xs4all.nl
> > <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>:
> >
> > Hi Alexandre,
> >
> > The nettles are the cyclone bin-ops objects we discussed before:
> > !-, !/, ==~, !=~, <~, <=~, >~, >=~, !-~, !/~, %~, +=~
> > They are part of the cyclone library object, which may or may
> not be
> > part of your distribution. The source code is in
> > externals/miXed/cyclone/shadow/nettles.c, hence the name.
> >
> > As it is a subset of what is in zexy, it is not very important
> > to make
> > them available again.
> >
> > Here a link to my copy of the original cyclone page:
> >
> http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cyclone_site/cyclone.html
> .
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Fred Jan
> >
> > On 2015-06-06 01:06 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > > So [maxmode] basically loads useless empty "dummy" objects for
> > more
> > > compability.
> > >
> > > Well, my two cents is that the idea of having a library with
> > several
> > > objects that exist in Max and not in Pd is great and awesome.
> > It serves
> > > well in making both worlds somewhat compatible. But regarding
> > opening
> > > the same files/patches, MAX and PD are just growing out to be
> very
> > > incompatible projects, so it's rather healthy to forget about
> > forcing
> > > any compatibility of this type - it's just insane. It may have
> > been
> > > reasonable back in MAX 4.6, but nowadays, with MAX 7 and
> > everything,
> > > seems pointless.
> > >
> > > More than that, to answer your question, it's pretty obvious
> > to me that
> > > no human being is using this...
> > >
> > > Now, please tell about these /bin-ops //"nettles"/, what are
> > these?
> > >
> > > cheers
> > >
> > > 2015-06-05 18:15 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan at xs4all.nl
> > <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>
> > > <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>>:
> > >
> > > Hi Alexandre,
> > >
> > > >> No code will be removed, just the maxmode object and
> > related
> > > >> library objects will not be build anymore.
> > > >
> > > > So it'll remove many objects from the library, right?
> > >
> > > What will be removed is the actual maxmode object, the
> bin-ops
> > > "nettles", ~150 dummy objects and the hammer and sickle
> > libraries. The
> > > hammer and sickle libraries contain the objects which are
> > also available
> > > as separate objects.
> > > >
> > > > I'm having a hard time understanding this [maxmode]
> > thing/object, can
> > > > you give us an example on how to use it?
> > >
> > > As I understand it, the purpose of the [maxmode] object is
> > to make
> > > importing and converting Max/MSP 4.6 patches more
> > convenient. The dummy
> > > objects do not do anything, but the patch will load
> > without errors. The
> > > idea is to replace the dummies with abstractions or other
> > objects. The
> > > dummies were the objects in Max/MSP4.6 but not in
> > Pd-vanilla or cyclone.
> > >
> > > It might have made sense when Max/MSP 4.6 were common, but
> > that is a
> > > long time ago.
> > >
> > > The original cyclone page is gone from the site, but I
> > made a copy just
> > > in time:
> > >
> >
> http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cyclone_site/cyclone.html
> .
> > >
> > > >
> > > > cheers
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > Fred Jan
> > > >
> > > > 2015-05-01 17:48 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan
> > <fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>
> > <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>
> > > > <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>
> > <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>>>:
> > > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > Is anyone using the 'maxmode' object and
> > functionality of the
> > > > Cyclone library?
> > > >
> > > > The maxmode adds 162 dummy objects, which make
> > importing of Max/MSP
> > > > patches more convenient. Note these are Max/MSP 4.6
> > patches, already
> > > > supported in Pd-vanilla, not the more recent file
> > formats. In
> > > > addition several binop signal objects are loaded,
> > the message and
> > > > signal objects are loaded from library objects.
> > Normal cyclone usage
> > > > are individual objects.
> > > >
> > > > Because we are planning to switch to a new build
> > system, usable for all
> > > > Puredata external libraries, it would be an
> > opportunity to simplify the
> > > > building process and remove potential unused
> > functionality.
> > > >
> > > > No code will be removed, just the maxmode object and
> > related library
> > > > objects will not be build anymore.
> > > >
> > > > Fred Jan
> > > >
> > > > P.S. The original cyclone page went off-line
> > sometime this year, but
> > > > here is a copy:
> > > >
> >
> http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cyclone_site/cyclone.html
> > > >
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