[PD] More teeth. Was: cyclone abstractions was: Nettles.
Alexandre Torres Porres
porres at gmail.com
Thu Jun 25 22:32:19 CEST 2015
> What do you want me to check?
I was just more curious to see if you understood the similarities between
comb~ and teeth~ since it seemed you were still in doubt on how it behaved.
Did you see that comb~ has also two delay lines?
> If comb~ and teeth~ are so close, one
> wonders why there are two objects at all.
Well, they are that close... the only thing is that teeth~ is a bit more
flexible, but it can act exactly like comb~ if the delay values are the
same for the feedforward and the feedback.
I guess they made it in the case anyone wanted a filter that is a bit more
flexible.
On that note, you may realize that the structure of the [allpass~] object
is also exactly the same as [comb~]! This means that you can make an
[allpass~] out of [comb~], just make it sure, in comb~, that b = 1 and that
c = a * -1!
So it's kinda like [comb~] is the same as [allpass~] but more flexible. And
teeth~ is an even more flexible unit than comb~ (and yeah, you can also
make allpass~ with teeth~).
Hope that was clearer and not more confusing.
cheers
2015-06-25 4:08 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan at xs4all.nl>:
> Hi Alexandre,
>
> What do you want me to check?
>
> If comb~ and teeth~ are so close, one wonders why there are two objects
> at all. In hindsight, the early development of objects in Max/MSP
> doesn't look very organized. Almost like the pd-extended collection :-).
>
> Greetings,
>
> Fred Jan
>
> On 2015-06-25 12:20 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > were you able to check it? I'm curious to see if we are on the same page
> :)
> > cheers
> >
> > 2015-06-23 13:52 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com
> > <mailto:porres at gmail.com>>:
> >
> > > Well, not quite. You also need another delay line,
> > > as each has different input (input and output signal).
> >
> > Not really, because [comb~] also has two delay lines, one for input
> > and another for output, in the same way! The thing is that it'll
> > have the same delay time for both lines, whereas in teeth~ you can
> > specify different times for each delay.
> >
> > see my patch attached comparing them.
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > 2015-06-23 12:08 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan at xs4all.nl
> > <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>:
> >
> > Hi Alexandre,
> >
> > > hello, I had plans to try working on a .c code for it, and my
> idea was
> > > to just adapt from [comb~].
> > >
> > > Yeah... Teeth is almost identical to [comb~]!
> > >
> > > In [comb~] you have the same delay time for the feedforward
> and the
> > > feedback. In [teeth~] you can specify different time delays for
> > > feedforward and feedback. So you basically have only one extra
> time
> > > delay parameter to include in [comb~] and... voilà, you've got
> [teeth~]!
> >
> > Well, not quite. You also need another delay line, as each has
> > different
> > input (input and output signal). And writing code is more fun
> than
> > reading/understanding/adapting. I prefer the array aproach above
> the
> > pointer arithmetic that real programmers use :-).
> > >
> > > Hope this makes it clear for you.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Fred Jan
> > >
> > > 2015-06-23 4:56 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan at xs4all.nl
> <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>
> > > <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>>:
> > >
> > > Hi Alexandre,
> > >
> > > Just now I completed the c code for a teeth~ object, which
> doesn't seem
> > > to crash instantly and sounds* the same as your
> abstraction which is now
> > > in cyclone.
> > >
> > > The block diagram in your help patch made it very clear
> what should be
> > > coded. The only thing (what an expert told me), was that
> 'z' applies to
> > > samples, and teeth~ is controlled in milli-seconds.
> > >
> > > While coding, I found the delay time has to be zero or
> positive, but the
> > > gain coefficients can be negative too, adding the delayed
> signal out of
> > > phase.
> > >
> > > I have no plans to add the object to cyclone anytime soon.
> First spend
> > > some time figuring out that i really does what I think it
> does. It
> > > doesn't crash instantly, and output looks sinusoid with a
> sinus input,
> > > but that doesn't prove much. And at least some form of
> interpolation
> > > should be added before it is ready for prime time.
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > Fred Jan
> > >
> > > *) the help patch sounds equally weird with both, using
> only the
> > > positive gains
> > >
> > > On 2015-06-15 04:14 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > > > it's just a preview, I'm gonna still work on them and
> help files :)
> > > >
> > > > 2015-06-15 10:38 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan <
> fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>
> > > <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>
> > > > <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>
> > <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>>>:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Alexandre,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the abstractions. I will include them in
> > the svn
> > > repository
> > > > and the next binary deken compatible builds. Only
> > rect~ didn't
> > > work.
> > > >
> > > > I applied some minor modification by replacing [pi],
> > which doesn't
> > > > appear to be vanilla by [3.141593(.
> > > >
> > > > Greetings,
> > > >
> > > > Fred Jan
> > > >
> > > > P.S. Wouldn't mind if the future supplied
> > help-patches were
> > > already
> > > > cyclone-standard formatting ;-).
> > > >
> > > > On 2015-06-14 10:14 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres
> wrote:
> > > > >> Any object or abstraction that implements
> something
> > > > >> present in Max(5) could be part of cyclone.
> > > > >
> > > > > i've made 13 abstractions so far
> > > > >
> > > > > - atodb
> > > > > - atodb~
> > > > > - dbtoa
> > > > > - dbtoa~
> > > > > - freqshift~
> > > > > - rect~
> > > > > - saw~
> > > > > - scale
> > > > > - scale~
> > > > > - teeth~
> > > > > - thresh~
> > > > > - tri~
> > > > > - trunc~
> > > > >
> > > > > Gonna try and do a few of these more, I have more
> > 5 in mind
> > > so far. I
> > > > > guess some make much more sense as objects, like
> > > > [rect~]/[tri~]/[saw~].
> > > > > Here's a preview attached.
> > > > >
> > > > > cheers
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
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