[PD] Strange behaviour when sending sinesum commands to arrays

Thu Oct 8 21:11:05 CEST 2015

Dynamic patching is rough but possible. If you try it, you'll want to make
sure not to dynamically patch any tilde objects. Also I can't remember if
deleting a table already used in dsp triggers a recalculation, so it may
not even be worth it.

In your patch the sine weights are hardcoded. Can we assume that won't be
the case ultimately, and that each of the notes would have a potentially
different timbre (and pitch, etc.)? The only other thing I can think of
would be to drop 32 oscillators into each of your instances, and then just
send the desired weights as amplitude multipliers to the oscillators (you'd
have to take care of normalizing manually). That's annoying, but since
you're [switch~]ing things off anyway when they aren't playing, it's not
out of the realm of possibility. Or, if you're planning on constraining the
timbres in a particular way, it wouldn't be impossible to calculate all of
the different timbres you're going to use when the patch loads. If there's
some randomness, you could dynamically patch 1000 tables with different
weightings, and then just have the note choose from among the 1000.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Benoît Fortier <benoitfortier at yahoo.ca>
wrote:

> Thank you all for your help. Matt, Your solutions sounds interesting. I'm
> not familiar with block size issues and how the fourier analysis objects
> work apart that I know what they do (at least roughly). I guess it's
> about time I go deeper into this. I'll start with Miller's book unless you
> have an other suggestion.
>
> Maybe I'm being naive, but what about dynamic patching? Could it be
> possible to create (and delete) tables on the fly depending of my needs? I
> find it very hard to find a good documentation about dynamic patching on
> the web so right now I can hardly experiment with this. Where could I start?
>
> Benoît Fortier
>
>
>
>
> Le jeudi 8 octobre 2015 13h16, Matt Barber <brbrofsvl at gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>
> I haven't tried this in a while, but it might be worth trying to build a
> custom sinesum abstraction that fills the tables manually with an until
> loop and then normalizes them. This may take too long, though. There's
> probably another solution with [tabsend~] and [tabreceive~] where you write
> the weights in a table and then use use an ifft to tabsend~ the result to
> the table you're reading from. I haven't thought it through - the blocking
> would be tricky.
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Benoît Fortier <benoitfortier at yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
>
> Ok here is my simplified patch. First, if you click the top bang, it
> outputs 50 notes (at once!) without a single glitch, at least on my
> computer (MAC mini late 2012 quad core 2.6 mhz i7, osx yosemite, 16gig
> ram). Then if you click the second bang below on the left, even if it
> outputs just 2 (you can change this number if two doesn't produce audio
> errors on your computer) notes at a time, it produces almost all the time
> I/O errors and audio dropout. There's 50 arrays in the patch and 350
> voices... So can anyone think of the reason why the first time the arrays
> are sent a sinesum message everything works fine, but the second time it
> produces so many errors?
>
> Thank you for your help!
>
> Benoît Fortier
>
>
>
> Le mercredi 7 octobre 2015 16h01, Miller Puckette <msp at ucsd.edu> a écrit :
>
>
> This is probably not your problem but just in case:
>
> MAke sure not to update large numbers of arrays that are visible - hide
> them
> in a sub-patch or in "array define" objects (or the old "table") so that
> they're not visible.  Erasing and re-drawing graphs is much more expensive
> than computing them.
>
> cheers
> Miller
>
> On Wed, Oct 07, 2015 at 07:12:40PM +0000, Benoît Fortier wrote:
> > Sorry for double posting, there was a typo in my previous message so I'm
> sending it again to make sure everything is clear.
> > Hi list, I’m working on a big patch. I have many audio I/O error and
> audio glitch and I’m having a hard time finding why. I’ve done some
> extensive troubleshooting yesterday but couldn’t pin point the exact cause.
> I managed to narrow my problem down to what I find is a weird behaviour (at
> least for me!) with arrays being filled with the sinesum method. Here are
> some more details
> > Basically my patch is a big synth. It has a bank of 50 arrays. Those
> arrays are storing waveforms (using sinesum) which are read by a bank of
> 300 « voices » (each using the tabread4~ object). When a « note in »
> message is received, the patch first sends a sinesum command to an unused
> array. Then, the array id is sent in the voice bank along with the « note
> in » message so that it can be dealt with accordingly by an individual
> voice using a tabread4~ object. The sinesum part of this process happens
> only if necessary : if many consecutive notes uses the same waveform, then
> the different voices dealing with those notes will all read the same array
> and no sinesum command is sent until the waveform changes.
> > The problem starts when all arrays have been sent a first sinesum
> command and start receiving a second one to replace the first waveform,
> which is not used anymore. (To make that happen quickly I can set my patch
> to always send a sinesum command to a new array for every « note in » so
> that I quickly reach a point when all the arrays were sent a first sinesum)
> The weird behaviour is this : the first 50 notes sounds just fine with no
> I/O errors, but the 51st note and upward almost all provoque I/O errors and
> audio glitch, no matter how many voices are playing at the same time. It’s
> like if the first time each arrays are sent a sinesum command they load
> just fine, but it mysteriously takes much more cpu to send a second (third,
> fourth… ) sinesum command to each of them, thus provoking the audio glitch.
> I’ve managed to reproduce the problem with various simplified version of my
> patch.
> > Does that ring a bell to anyone? If not I’ll soon make a simplified and
> clear version of my patch so that my problem is emphasized and I’ll post it
> here. To the best of my knowledge and after a lot of testing, I believe my
> voice management system and my array management system is not part of the
> problem (for example, I believe no arrays are changed while being read by a
> tabread4~).
> > Thank you all for your helpfulness!
> > Benoît Benoît Fortier
> > 581 995-5622
> >
> >
> >      Le mercredi 7 octobre 2015 15h06, Benoît Fortier <
> benoitfortier at yahoo.ca> a écrit :
> >
> >
> >  Hi list, I’m working on a big patch. I have many audio I/O error and
> audio glitch and I’m having a hard time finding why. I’ve done some
> extensive troubleshooting yesterday but couldn’t pin point the exact cause.
> I managed to narrow my problem down to what I find is a weird behaviour (at
> least for me!) with arrays being filled with the sinesum method. Here are
> some more details
> > Basically my patch is a big synth. It has a bank of 50 arrays. Those
> arrays are storing waveforms (using sinesum) which are read by a bank of
> 300 « voices » (each using the tabread4~ object). When a « note in »
> message is received, the patch first sends a sinesum command to an unused
> array. Then, the array id is sent in the voice bank along with the « note
> in » message so that it can be dealt with accordingly by an individual
> voice using a tabread4~ object. The sinesum part of this process happens
> only if necessary : if many consecutive notes uses the same waveform, then
> the different voices dealing with those notes will all read the same array
> and no sinesum command is sent until the waveform changes.
> > The problem starts when all arrays have been sent a first sinesum
> command and start receiving a second one to replace the first waveform,
> which is not used anymore. (To make that happen quickly I can set my patch
> to always send a sinesum command to a new array for every « note in » so
> that I quickly reach a point when all the arrays were sent a first sinesum)
> The weird behaviour is this : the first 50 notes sounds just fine (the same
> number , with no I/O errors, but the 51st note and upward almost all
> provoque I/O errors and audio glitch, no matter how many voices are playing
> at the same time. It’s like if the first time each arrays are sent a
> sinesum command they load just fine, but it mysteriously takes much more
> cpu to send a second (third, fourth… ) sinesum command to each of them,
> thus provoking the audio glitch. I’ve managed to reproduce the problem with
> various simplified version of my patch.
> > Does that ring a bell to anyone? If not I’ll soon make a simplified and
> clear version of my patch so that my problem is emphasized and I’ll post it
> here. To the best of my knowledge and after a lot of testing, I believe my
> voice management system and my array management system is not part of the
> problem (for example, I believe no arrays are changed while being read by a
> tabread4~).
> > Thank you all for your helpfulness!
> > Benoît
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pd-list at lists.iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
> >
> >
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pd-list at lists.iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pd-list at lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/attachments/20151008/accd9b48/attachment.html>