[PD] chord libraries?

Matt Barber brbrofsvl at gmail.com
Mon Dec 7 06:19:41 CET 2015


This might be relevant:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_names_and_symbols_(popular_music)

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 12:31 AM, William Huston <williamahuston at gmail.com>
wrote:

> No worries, Matt!! One thing I love about this community is, that while
> there is complete love for newbies--
>
> (e.g. my first (and ugliest!) snare patch I posted to the Facebook group
> got like 30 likes!!)
>
> -- I feel there is also a gentle demand (and sometimes not so gentle) for
> intellectual rigor, scientific investigation, completeness in the solution.
> A kind of technical aesthetic. I really appreciate that.
>
> So I do appreciate all of these comments --
>
> Miller your comment about Varese made me laugh... when I dreamed up that
> ugly tetrachord of all minor seconds, I immediately thought of Frank Zappa
> and the "Zappa Cluster". I think he studied with Varese....
>
> But I am caught between dealing with a broad robust complete solution, and
> also something I can reasonable a) get my head around, and b) deal with
> using my existing controllers.
>
> I just want to play around with some chord maps, like Stephen Mugglin's.
> And just see where that goes. I have an existing pad controller, and I
> think I can map a subset of it. Pick a chord with my left had on the pad
> controller, and pick a tonic with the keyboard on the right. I want to
> build a sophisticated Autoharp with PD :)
>
>
>
>
> I will keep in mind general applicability, and completeness, which I hear
> from your comments.
>
> However-- any instrument or song made with it, or the scale mode it
> uses... is a limited subset of possibilities. Like Iambic Pentameter. Or
> Haiku.
> It's an artificially imposed limitation on the field of all possibilities.
>
> It's not all possible chords --whatever that means! e.g. combinations of
> notes made of tone timbres composed of sinusoids with certain mathematical
> relationships between partials... but it is a *subset* of these.
>
> And while yes I appreciate the links to the microtonal stuff, I just
> cannot deal with that now! Ha ha. I love listening to it-- like this
> guy... <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWCwMW48FO4>
> But it's *way *beyond my present understanding... I'm sticking with 12TET
> for the moment... while acknowledging other realms exist.
>
> In some ways, it seems the limitations of structure
> (like 12 TET or Iambic Pentameter, or only using
> a subset of all possible chords, etc)
> can inspire the movements within the creative work.
>
> So I am actually fine with dealing with just the chords on the
> Mugglin Chord Map. I understand that this is a very incomplete
> solution.
>
> Many thanks for the link to Tonnetz!
>
> Again, I appreciate all of the guidance and suggestions!
> BH
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 3, 2015, Matt Barber <brbrofsvl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I hate to be a pedant/ass about this, but it's important to indicate the
> scope of application. Most music (I'm not sure about "most songs") doesn't
> use chords at all – chords are mostly a Western phenomenon (with some
> important exceptions, e.g. Central Africa).
> > All 29 tetrachord types can be found in:
> > Western classical music of the last 100 years (at least)
> > Jazz
> > And if you count melodic structures as well:
> > South Indian (Carnatic) ragas
> > Western classical music of the last 300 years (at least)
> > Prog Rock
> > etc.
> > That cluster is sometimes called the chromatic tetrachord, 0123, 4-1,
> the B-A-C-H tetrachord, or something like "the four-note chromatic
> cluster." It functions in lots of music, but probably not the kind modeled
> by the map you linked to.
> > If you're looking for chord maps, do you know about Tonnetze?
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonnetz
> >
> > It says almost nothing about syntax -- the map you linked to is a syntax
> graph -- but it does systemize some tonal relations.
> > On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM, William Huston <williamahuston at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks Matt!
> >>
> >> Yeah, I'm pretty good with the mathematics of permutations and
> combinations...
> >>
> >> My goal is to be able to generate (and hopefully identify, given a list
> of MIDI notes) any given chord/inversion. Which somewhat restricts these to
> "musical" chords.
> >>
> >> I think a cluster, a tetrachord of all minor 2nds is not terribly
> useful and probably doesn't have a name. Yes it is good to characterize it
> for completeness :)
> >>
> >> My main purpose now is to build an instrument which allows me to
> traverse a "chord map", which generally follows how most songs are
> structured. With an easy way to change the tonic, make inversions, and
> maybe throw in some substitutions.
> >>
> >> I have a 4x4 drum pad controller, which I want to use to play a drone
> chord, and move through a map, while I play a lead with my right hand.
> >>
> >> I really like what this guy has done (but there are many maps like
> this):
> >>
> >> http://mugglinworks.com/chordmaps/genmap.htm
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tuesday, November 3, 2015, Matt Barber <brbrofsvl at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > I just remembered this Julian Hook article on Music Theory Online, if
> you want to find out more about how to find the number of chords of a given
> size:
> >> > http://www.mtosmt.org/issues/mto.07.13.4/mto.07.13.4.hook.html
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 3:00 PM, William Huston <
> williamahuston at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Matt suggested I forward this side discussion (and attachment) to
> the list.
> >> >>
> >> >> N.B., Matt is referring by number to the list of 55 intervals I
> identified in my original, quoted below. However, it was an HTML list, and
> the numbering got munched during quoting. Sorry if that makes this slightly
> unclear.  --BH
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> >> From: Matt Barber <brbrofsvl at gmail.com>
> >> >> Date: Monday, November 2, 2015
> >> >> Subject: chord libraries?
> >> >> To: William Huston <williamahuston at gmail.com>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> We also eliminate transpositions, so in this case 55 is the same
> chord as 1, 18 and 12 are the same, and so forth. If we eliminate all
> transpositions and inversions, we end up with 12 trichords:
> >> >> 012*
> >> >> 013
> >> >> 014
> >> >> 015
> >> >> 016
> >> >> 024*
> >> >> 025
> >> >> 026
> >> >> 027*
> >> >> 036*
> >> >> 037
> >> >> 048*
> >> >> I marked the 5 that are self-inversional with a star. They're all
> "musical," but again it depends on the type of music you're looking at. All
> 19 trichords (eliminating transpositions and respacing) have been in use as
> simultaneities since the late 1800s, but some more than others. 012 didn't
> get a huge foothold until the first decade or two of the 20th century.
> >> >> See the attached; it does eliminate inversions, but it wouldn't be
> that hard to make that a user preference. [list-setclass] outputs the
> normal form as I described above, and the interval-vector one outputs a
> catalog of the chromatic intervals contained in the chord (eliminating
> unisons, octaves and inversions). In mod 12 there are 6 chromatic
> intervals, counting minor seconds and major sevenths as the same -- the
> output just gives you the number of each interval in the chord from 1 to 6
> (or whatever if you choose a different modulus).
> >> >> Matt
> >> >> PS -- if you like, you can bump this response up to the list.
> >> >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 12:28 PM, William Huston <
> williamahuston at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks Matt. Yes interested.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > FTR, if we do not eliminate inversions, I count 55 3-tone chords
> in 12TET:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 111000000000
> >> >> > 110100000000
> >> >> > 110010000000
> >> >> > 110001000000
> >> >> > 110000100000
> >> >> > 110000010000
> >> >> > 110000001000
> >> >> > 110000000100
> >> >> > 110000000010
> >> >> > 110000000001
> >> >> > 101100000000
> >> >> > 101010000000
> >> >> > 101001000000
> >> >> > 101000100000
> >> >> > 101000010000
> >> >> > 101000001000
> >> >> > 101000000100
> >> >> > 101000000010
> >> >> > 101000000001
> >> >> > 100110000000
> >> >> > 100101000000
> >> >> > 100100100000
> >> >> > 100100010000
> >> >> > 100100001000
> >> >> > 100100000100
> >> >> > 100100000010
> >> >> > 100100000001
> >> >> > 100011000000
> >> >> > 100010100000
> >> >> > 100010010000
> >> >> > 100010001000
> >> >> > 100010000100
> >> >> > 100010000010
> >> >> > 100010000001
> >> >> > 100001100000
> >> >> > 100001010000
> >> >> > 100001001000
> >> >> > 100001000100
> >> >> > 100001000010
> >> >> > 100001000001
> >> >> > 100000110000
> >> >> > 100000101000
> >> >> > 100000100100
> >> >> > 100000100010
> >> >> > 100000100001
> >> >> > 100000011000
> >> >> > 100000010100
> >> >> > 100000010010
> >> >> > 100000010001
> >> >> > 100000001100
> >> >> > 100000001010
> >> >> > 100000001001
> >> >> > 100000000110
> >> >> > 100000000101
> >> >> > 100000000011
> >> >> >
> >> >> > But roughly 2/3's are inversions, so if we exclude inversions as
> being the same chord, then yes we get 55*.3333 =~ 19. I'm guessing at least
> one of these is an inversion of itself which is why 55 is not evenly
> divisible by 3.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Anyway, I'm not sure how many of these are really musical. I would
> think of those 19, only about 8-10 are commonly used.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks, interested in whatever you have :)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > BH
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> --
> >> >> May you, and all beings
> >> >> be happy and free from suffering :)
> >> >> -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ______________________________________________
> >> >> Pd-list at lists.iem.at mailing list
> >> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> --
> >> May you, and all beings
> >> be happy and free from suffering :)
> >> -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
> >>
> >
> >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/attachments/20151207/ddec2738/attachment-0001.html>


More information about the Pd-list mailing list