[PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing objects by Alexandre Porres

Mon Feb 15 00:44:55 CET 2016

On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 5:54 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <
pd-list at lists.iem.at> wrote:

> Hi Antoine,
> We're talking about two different kinds of "dynamic" nlets.  Yours seems
> to
> set a value for the signal based on whether or not there is a connection
> to that
> inlet.  What I'm talking about is a future object that would elegantly
> handle
> the creation of a variable number of inlets(~) or outlets(~) inside an
> abstraction.
>
> I'm pressing Ivica specifically on variable signal nlets because there's
> no way
> to flexibly handle them.
>

Why not? First of all, we need to agree that such an object would be mostly
useful at instantiation time (e.g. a silly example would be an abstraction
that mimics selector~ behavior) and in dynamic patching where after
creation one would need to connect bunch of stuff to this object and ensure
that inside the abstraction additional inlets actually do something.
Second, let's assume the dynamic nlet creation object is the rightmost
object (otherwise user is asking for potential problems if something is
already connected to the second inlet and then suddenly first inlet grows a
couple more inlets before the second one--even this could be potentially
handled, with adequate changes inside the pd core, or in this case pd-l2ork
core). Now, if new nlets are generated, they will not autoconnect to
anything--this is user's responsibility likely through some sort of live or
scripted patching at instantiation time which could be driven from the same
argument. Once that is all taken into an account, the last thing is to
consider:

suspend dsp
instantiate new object
rebuild dsp graph (as you would with instantiation of any new signal object
resume dsp
redraw object and parent object on its parent canvases

One lingering concern is that this would effectively make the abstraction
dirty which could be either seen as a good thing or handled as something
that does not trigger the dirty flag.

Best,

Ico

>
> -Jonathan
>
>
> On Sunday, February 14, 2016 5:34 PM, Antoine Rousseau <antoine at metalu.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> I've only partially followed all this discussion (not using Max myself),
> but maybe an object I wrote could help you building such abstractions :
>
> [moonlib/dinlet~] is an [inlet~] with an init float value (constant
> signal) as an argument.
> This default value is overloaded when a signal is connected to the inlet,
> but restored when the signal is disconnected. A float sent to it would
> overwrite the default constant value.
>
> Of course the init default value could be one of the abstraction's
> arguments ($xxx)...
>
> BUT :
>
> - there is a very little hack (which could be called a bugfix...) that has
> to be made to pd source (this change is written in comment in the source
> file of dinlet~). I should open a ticket for that in the sourceforge repo.
> The involved bug is mixing the different float values up when [dinlet~] is
> used together with normal [inlet]s.
>
> - I should add a missing feature in dinlet~, which would add an inlet to
> the [dinlet~] object itself, to allow changing the default value inside of
> the abstraction.
>
> If anyone think this would be helpful, I could do this (open a ticket and
> update moonlib about this missing inlet).
>
>
>
> 2016-02-14 20:29 GMT+01:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <
> pd-list at lists.iem.at>:
>
> > Why not simply have an inlet that can handle both inside an abstraction
> and route signal one way and number the other and then sprinkle that with
> dynamic nlet creation and you're done? Then you can simply abstract most
> cases.
>
> I read (and like) your spec on dynamic nlet creation, but I have a problem
> with section 2.1 Signals:
>
> "To handle the dynamic creation of signal inlets and their routing within
> the abstraction, the implementation must"
>
> It looks like the rest of the section is missing. :)
>
> -Jonathan
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, February 14, 2016 1:51 PM, Matt Barber <brbrofsvl at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> I tried coding that once, but it seemed like it needed some big change in
> architecture. Technically it's only the main signal that accepts both
> messages and signals in this way, where you would want to route the
> message. Floats should almost always be promoted to signals.
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic <ico at vt.edu> wrote:
>
> Why not simply have an inlet that can handle both inside an abstraction
> and route signal one way and number the other and then sprinkle that with
> dynamic nlet creation and you're done? Then you can simply abstract most
> cases.
>
>
> On 2/14/2016 11:36 AM, Matt Barber wrote:
>
> [gt~] is a great example of something that could work as an abstraction,
> except for the pesky right inlet which should take a signal if there's no
> creation argument, but float otherwise.
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Ivica Bukvic <ico at vt.edu> wrote:
>
> What I am also trying to do eventually in pd-l2ork is weed out redundant
> objects and only keep the ones that do the said task the best while still
> supporting other objects' idiosyncrasies (if any). There is absolutely no
> reason to have multiple objects of the same kind. Ultimately, one could
> keep all the externals in the same folder and completely do away with all
> the declares, imports, and other things that make learning pd unnecessarily
> harder.
> --
> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
> Associate Professor
> Computer Music
> ICAT Senior Fellow
> Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
> Virginia Tech
> School of Performing Arts – 0141
> Blacksburg, VA 24061
> (540) 231-6139
> ico at vt.edu
> www.performingarts.vt.edu
> disis.icat.vt.edu
> l2ork.icat.vt.edu
> ico.bukvic.net
> On Feb 14, 2016 8:40 AM, "Fred Jan Kraan" <fjkraan at xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> Hi Alexandre,
>
> guess some of it is in:
> http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cycloneToDo.html
>
>
> This list is also becoming a list of what has been done.
>
>
> As with _nettles_
>
> "try to resurrect as independent object library"
>
> Anyway, tell me if this gets includes on this file.
>
>
> Yes, the nettles-objects are part of the latest cyclone versions. They are
> part of the nettles library, which can be loaded with [declare]. Not all
> operating systems like the '<' and '>' in the object names and there is
> overlap with other library objects, so only loading them when needed is
> cleaner.
>
>
> cheers
>
> ps. count me in for help with the help files
>
>
> Great!
>
> Greetings,
>
> Fred Jan
>
>
> 2016-02-11 22:18 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com
> <mailto:porres at gmail.com>>:
>
>     Howdy, it's a known fact brazilians will start the year only after
>     carnival, so here I am.
>
>     I'd like to share my list of things to do with existing Cyclone
>     Objetcs. Obviously there might be other issues with other objects
>     that would make them up to date with the current version of Max (Max
>     7). Nonetheless, this is what I find relevant, and I've been really
>     checking it through.
>
>     It's only about 11 objects, some has already been discussed here and
>     might have been fixed or in the process to be taken care of, forgive
>     me if so.
>
>     I have it attached and also as a link to a google doc
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1L_dUNgznfhaZHPKMJ3jJ_p9uIXRVP6Rs9-3nXy2Qlk8/edit?usp=sharing
>
>     Next, I will get together a list of new objects I think should be
>     included, many of which I've already made as abstractions (kind of
>     to show how it works like I did with [teeth~], cause I really think
>     they should all be done as externals).
>
>     Cheers
>
>
>
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