[PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing objects by Alexandre Porres

Ivica Ico Bukvic ico at vt.edu
Sat Feb 20 17:04:30 CET 2016

FWIW, Fred, if there is a way to convince you to allow for adding new 
objects, I would certainly like to second that. In the eyes of new pd 
users who are familiar with Max, Cyclone is not only a Max 4.6 
compatibility library, it is first and foremost Max compatibility 
library and that would suggest newer objects should be in there. I 
imagine the only reason they simply weren't already added is likely due 
to lack of a developer and maintainer. The last thing pd community needs 
is yet another library that may end-up without a maintainer. The 
confusion one will have to deal with by creating cyclone/prepend vs. 
<some-other-lib>/pong is pointless at best. If maintaining library 
overhead is a concern, please note we've already done a fair amount of 
creating updated help files for the entire cyclone library in pd-l2ork, 
as well as fixing and upgrading a number of objects, all of which I've 
gladly shared with you and continue to contribute as much as you allow 
and my time permits. But please, let's not start yet another library. If 
anything, we should look into consolidating. Pd-L2Ork has already 
started doing this. e.g. one of the examples brought up regarding Eric 
Lyon's potpourri and cyclone's cartopol~ and poltocar~, in pd-l2ork, 
potpourri objects are not being built because they are not necessary. 
All this with the goal of eventually doing away with 
subfolders/declares/imports and other middleware and simply having all 
the best externals in one folder and getting rid of the rest (or perhaps 
adding them in the unsupported/legacy subfolder). In such an ecosystem 
PD META will take care of the attribution and bug reporting and we'll be 
all better for it, particularly in terms of encouraging new users to 
join the pd community.

On 2/17/2016 1:33 PM, Fred Jan Kraan wrote:
> Hi Alexandre,
>> Howdy, if you understand only a part of it, I know that I know about
>> nothing.
>> But hey, as I understand it, there's quite some work to make it (loading
>> the weird name objects without [declare]) happen and you'd rather focus
>> on other fixes, cool.
>> Well, I'm just starting using github
>> https://github.com/porres/pd-cyclone
>> <https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fporres%2Fpd-cyclone&h=FAQF6upTy> 
>> and
>> have mobilized others to collaborate with new objects for cyclone,
>> according to that list I shared these days.
>> You may have noticed a pull request already for [pong]. I'm working with
>> someone else and we should be having scale / scale~ / atodb / dbtoa /
>> atodb~ / dbtoa~ / trunc~ ready quite soon!
> Yes, I noticed. I appreciate all you do for pd and cyclone in 
> particular, but I cannot accept the request. Cyclone is one of the few 
> libraries with a closed set of objects; only those part of Max/MSP, 
> arbitrary set around version 4.6 or 5.
> Cyclone is already quite big, with 150+ objects. This seems a good 
> reason to be selective in which objects should be added. Just because 
> objects are or should be in Max/MSP is not reason enough. If it exists 
> in another library, it is unneeded IMHO.
>> I can bother myself to try and deal with the issues regarding these
>> objects, but I think a start could be to create new objects with the
>> unweird names, this is not in conflict with Max compatibility, as it
>> also loads these objects via the same way (again, they'd be:
>> /greaterthan~ / greaterthaneq~ / lessthan~ / lessthaneq~ / equals~ /
>> notequals~ / plusequals~ / rminus~ / rminus / rdiv~ /  rdiv / modulo~/).
>> It wouldn't get in conflict with current state of cyclone either and the
>> help files of these objects could refer to nettles and all. Cool? Later
>> on in the game I can try and figure out how to load them without 
>> declare.
> Personally I have no issue with [declare] as it is vanilla. Or with 
> the weird names; if you want un-weird names, abstractions (containing 
> [declare] should work too?
>> cheers
>> cheers
> Greetings,
> Fred Jan
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