[PD] [clone]'s instance number

Wed May 18 05:08:34 CEST 2016

I might be confused about something here. Is the idea of setting $1 as the
[clone] instance number so that the abstraction can know its instance value
from inside? Any communication from the outside (including between
instances) should probably be done via [clone] itself since all messages
are (or can be) addressed by the instance number. Or is the idea that you
should be able to set up a [r $1-foo] inside instances for communication?

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 9:44 PM, Christof Ressi <christof.ressi at gmx.at>
wrote:

> you can still disambiguate, because incoming messages are dispatched by
> the instance number and outgoing messages are prepended with it!
>
> My suggestion was mainly concerning all abstractions that work with inlets
> and outlets (as opposed to sends and receives), where you basically pass a
> message and get something out. This could be anything, from simple message
> filtering to a perlin noise generator. Or also existing audio modules that
> work with a message inlet. If there was such a flag, you could take any of
> these abstractions as they are, control them separately by prepending the
> instance number and route the message output (or use the sum of the audio
> output).
>
> I guess, people will use [clone] mainly for voice management for
> synthesizers, granular synthesis, complicated nested patches etc., but I
> also see a great potential for massive data generation by using existing
> simple abstractions and cloning them.
>
> Personally, I have many abstractions I would like to use with [clone], but
> either I'd have to rewrite them or make a wrapper abstraction. It's not a
> big deal, it's just that an alternative forwarding mode would provide some
> additional convenience (and could also encourage other usages for [clone]).
>
> Anyway, I can totally live without this feature, but would be happy to
> have it :-).
>
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Mai 2016 um 02:35 Uhr
> > Von: "Miller Puckette" <msp at ucsd.edu>
> > An: "Christof Ressi" <christof.ressi at gmx.at>
> > Cc: Pd-list <pd-list at lists.iem.at>
> > Betreff: Re: [PD] [clone]'s instance number
> >
> > I'm not sure... would anyone ever use this feature?  The patch in
> question
> > would ahve to take arguments (if not, thre's no problem) but not use
> them to
> > disambiguate the instances (because clone will set them all equal
> anyway).
> > I have trouble imaginig anyone building a patch like that.
> >
> > cheers
> > Miller
> >
> > On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 12:54:16AM +0200, Christof Ressi wrote:
> > > What do you think about the idea with a flag for changing the way
> creation arguments are forwarded? It would be really handy if you could
> write something like
> > > [clone -flag 100 my-abstraction 5 6 7] and $1 $2 $3 will be
> substituted by 5 6 7 instead of [N] 5 6. This way you could use existing
> abstractions as they are, without the need for writing a wrapper
> abstraction to handle the creation argument forwarding.
> > >
> > > Christof
> > >
> > > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 17. Mai 2016 um 04:05 Uhr
> > > > Von: "Miller Puckette" <msp at ucsd.edu>
> > > > An: "Jaime Oliver" <jaime.oliver2 at gmail.com>
> > > > Cc: "Christof Ressi" <christof.ressi at gmx.at>, Pd-list <
> pd-list at lists.iem.at>
> > > > Betreff: Re: [PD] [clone]'s instance number
> > > >
> > > > Cool, taking this suggestion.  At least for now it will work either
> way,
> > > > but it's much more readable with the abstraction name first so I
> changed the
> > > > help file to invoke it that way.
> > > >
> > > > cheers
> > > > Miller
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 01:13:37PM -0400, Jaime Oliver wrote:
> > > > > Well,
> > > > >
> > > > > What would happen if instead of calling clone like:
> > > > >
> > > > > [clone 16 my-abstraction 1 5 9]
> > > > >
> > > > > we called it with:
> > > > >
> > > > > [clone my-abstraction 16 1 5 9]
> > > > >
> > > > > and then $1 seems quite appropriate.
> > > > >
> > > > > ?
> > > > >
> > > > > J
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On May 11, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Christof Ressi <
> christof.ressi at gmx.at> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree that $1 is most natural!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, what about adding an additional flag -foo for [clone],
> which changes the way creation arguments are parsed?
> > > > > > Passing -foo could ignore the object ID and rather forward
> creation arguments just as they are.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This wouldn't break the current behaviour of [clone], but
> provide some functionality to deal with ordinary abstractions more
> conveniently.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Christof
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2016 um 18:06 Uhr
> > > > > > Von: "Ivica Bukvic" <ico at vt.edu>
> > > > > > An: "Miller Puckette" <msp at ucsd.edu>
> > > > > > Cc: "IOhannes m zmoelnig" <zmoelnig at iem.at>, Pd-list <
> pd-list at lists.iem.at>, "Christof Ressi" <christof.ressi at gmx.at>
> > > > > > Betreff: Re: [PD] [clone]'s instance number
> > > > > > What about having an if statement that detects clone object and
> if so, compensates for $2 discrepancy and assigns $1 to it instead and
> increments from there? This way the discrepancy is internalized as opposed
> to something user needs to deal with.
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
> > > > > > Associate Professor
> > > > > > Computer Music
> > > > > > ICAT Senior Fellow
> > > > > > Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
> > > > > > Virginia Tech
> > > > > > School of Performing Arts – 0141
> > > > > > Blacksburg, VA 24061
> > > > > > (540) 231-6139
> > > > > > ico at vt.edu
> > > > > > www.performingarts.vt.edu[http://www.performingarts.vt.edu]
> > > > > > disis.icat.vt.edu[http://disis.icat.vt.edu]
> > > > > > l2ork.icat.vt.edu[http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu]
> > > > > > ico.bukvic.net[http://ico.bukvic.net]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On May 11, 2016 11:50, "Miller Puckette" <msp at ucsd.edu[
> msp at ucsd.edu]> wrote:I gave this some thought but couldn't come up with
> anything more natural than
> > > > > > the "$1" idea.  It allows for changing the other arguments more
> easily than
> > > > > > it would have been if the instance number were passed last.
> Also, somehow
> > > > > > it felt more natural to have the instance number first.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If there's interest in the idea, I could add arrguments to
> change the
> > > > > > behavior (such as putting $1 last instead of first)...  Offhand
> I doubt that
> > > > > > would get used much though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > cheers
> > > > > > Miller
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 05:26:21PM +0200, Christof Ressi wrote:
> > > > > >> There's also a pitfall: additional creation arguments for the
> cloned abstraction will start with $2.
> > > > > >> For example, in [clone 16 my-abstraction 1 5 9] '1' will be
> parsed as $2, '5' as $3, '9' as $4 etc.
> > > > > >> No problem, if the abstraction was written for being used with
> [clone], but bad when cloning existing abstractions.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I'm wondering if there could be a way to get the abstraction ID
> without messing up existing abstractions... Maybe have a dedicated object?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> For now, I think it's important to mention the parsing of
> additional creation arguments in the help file.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Christof
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2016 um 16:25 Uhr
> > > > > >>> Von: "IOhannes m zmoelnig" <zmoelnig at iem.at[zmoelnig at iem.at]>
> > > > > >>> An: pd-list at lists.iem.at[pd-list at lists.iem.at]
> > > > > >>> Betreff: Re: [PD] [clone]'s instance number
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> On 2016-05-11 16:18, Liam Goodacre wrote:
> > > > > >>>> Would it be possible to access [clone]'s unique instance
> number from within the patch, a bit like a creation argument? This could be
> used to achieve differentiation between the abstractions, ie. if the
> abstraction contains "tabread4~ $-1.array" and the $-1 is replaced with the
> instance number, then each instance could read a different file. Of course
> there are other ways of doing this, but it would be neat to do it with
> clone, and I'm wondering if there's a way.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> isn't this what $1 is already doing in clone's instances?
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> fgasdmr
> > > > > >>> IOhannes
> > > > > >>>
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