[PD] [clone]'s instance number
Alex Norman
x37v.alex at gmail.com
Thu May 19 06:50:04 CEST 2016
Awesome!
On May 18, 2016 8:01:24 PM PDT, Miller Puckette <msp at ucsd.edu> wrote:
>OK... I'm talked into it. Should appear (as a "-x" optional flag) once
>0.47-1
>is ready.
>
>cheers
>Miller
>
>On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 11:07:36PM +0200, Christof Ressi wrote:
>> > Do you mean something like you have 1-baz.pd, 2-baz.pd, etc. and
>then inside your [clone] abstraction you've got [$1-baz]? I suppose
>this is a potential use case.
>>
>> Haha, sorry bad wording from my side, but this also an interesting
>use case!
>>
>> I rather meant projects where everything is broken into modules which
>themselves contain other modules etc. The first module in the tree
>takes an ID as an *creation argument* and passes it down do its
>submodules. Something like that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Mai 2016 um 22:40 Uhr
>> Von: "Matt Barber" <brbrofsvl at gmail.com>
>> An: "Christof Ressi" <christof.ressi at gmx.at>
>> Cc: "Miller Puckette" <msp at ucsd.edu>, Pd-list <pd-list at lists.iem.at>
>> Betreff: Re: [PD] [clone]'s instance number
>>
>> BTW: I guess, it's mostly a design question, whether to work with
>instance numbers inside abstractions and or to work with dispatching
>via the inlets and outlets. However, I can think of at least two cases
>where it's necessary to have immediate access to instance numbers
>inside an abstraction:
>> a) [send~ foo-$1] or [catch~ bar-$1] to disambiguate audio
>inputs/outputs, because you can't set these two dynamically like [r~]
>and [throw~]
>>
>>
>> Where do you envision the corresponding [r~ foo-$1] or [throw~
>bar-$1] to reside? If it's in the same abstraction, then $0 ought to
>work just as well.
>> b) instantiate another abstraction by the instance number (nested
>abstractions)
>>
>>
>> Do you mean something like you have 1-baz.pd, 2-baz.pd, etc. and
>then inside your [clone] abstraction you've got [$1-baz]? I suppose
>this is a potential use case.
>>
>> So the current behaviour of [clone] (passing the instance number as
>$1) can be important and very useful. The alternative mode I proposed
>is mainly for convenience but I'm sure it would pay off in the long
>run!
>>
>> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Mai 2016 um 18:45 Uhr
>> > Von: "Miller Puckette" <msp at ucsd.edu>
>> > An: "Alex Norman" <x37v.alex at gmail.com[x37v.alex at gmail.com]>
>>
>> > Cc: "Christof Ressi"
><christof.ressi at gmx.at[christof.ressi at gmx.at]>, Pd-list
><pd-list at lists.iem.at[pd-list at lists.iem.at]>
>> > Betreff: Re: [PD] [clone]'s instance number
>> >
>> > OK... sounds like it's worth putting in. I guess with the
>one-letter it
>> > already takes (-s) I should also add something like a -e flag to
>put the
>> > number argument at the end of the list instead of the beginning, or
>something
>> > like that.
>> >
>> > cheers
>> > Miller
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 07:20:29AM -0700, Alex Norman wrote:
>> > > I see your point, the abstraction need not know it's instance
>number since only the messages meant for it would be dispatched to it..
>If you don't care about using sends directed to a specific abstraction
>then the $1 does nothing for you and if the flag to clone could ditch
>the $1 to instance setting and just set the arguments to the
>abstraction [clone -flag blah 20 1 2 3] makes 20 copies of blah with
>args $1=1 $2=2.. You could use more of your existing abstractions as
>is, using their args the same way with or without clone.
>> > >
>> > > I'm warming up to that idea.
>> > >
>> > > Alex
>> > >
>> > > On May 17, 2016 6:44:51 PM PDT, Christof Ressi
><christof.ressi at gmx.at[christof.ressi at gmx.at]> wrote:
>> > > >you can still disambiguate, because incoming messages are
>dispatched by
>> > > >the instance number and outgoing messages are prepended with it!
>> > > >
>> > > >My suggestion was mainly concerning all abstractions that work
>with
>> > > >inlets and outlets (as opposed to sends and receives), where you
>> > > >basically pass a message and get something out. This could be
>anything,
>> > > >from simple message filtering to a perlin noise generator. Or
>also
>> > > >existing audio modules that work with a message inlet. If there
>was
>> > > >such a flag, you could take any of these abstractions as they
>are,
>> > > >control them separately by prepending the instance number and
>route the
>> > > >message output (or use the sum of the audio output).
>> > > >
>> > > >I guess, people will use [clone] mainly for voice management for
>> > > >synthesizers, granular synthesis, complicated nested patches
>etc., but
>> > > >I also see a great potential for massive data generation by
>using
>> > > >existing simple abstractions and cloning them.
>> > > >
>> > > >Personally, I have many abstractions I would like to use with
>[clone],
>> > > >but either I'd have to rewrite them or make a wrapper
>abstraction. It's
>> > > >not a big deal, it's just that an alternative forwarding mode
>would
>> > > >provide some additional convenience (and could also encourage
>other
>> > > >usages for [clone]).
>> > > >
>> > > >Anyway, I can totally live without this feature, but would be
>happy to
>> > > >have it :-).
>> > > >
>> > > >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Mai 2016 um 02:35 Uhr
>> > > >> Von: "Miller Puckette" <msp at ucsd.edu[msp at ucsd.edu]>
>> > > >> An: "Christof Ressi"
><christof.ressi at gmx.at[christof.ressi at gmx.at]>
>> > > >> Cc: Pd-list <pd-list at lists.iem.at[pd-list at lists.iem.at]>
>> > > >> Betreff: Re: [PD] [clone]'s instance number
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I'm not sure... would anyone ever use this feature? The patch
>in
>> > > >question
>> > > >> would ahve to take arguments (if not, thre's no problem) but
>not use
>> > > >them to
>> > > >> disambiguate the instances (because clone will set them all
>equal
>> > > >anyway).
>> > > >> I have trouble imaginig anyone building a patch like that.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> cheers
>> > > >> Miller
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 12:54:16AM +0200, Christof Ressi
>wrote:
>> > > >> > What do you think about the idea with a flag for changing
>the way
>> > > >creation arguments are forwarded? It would be really handy if
>you could
>> > > >write something like
>> > > >> > [clone -flag 100 my-abstraction 5 6 7] and $1 $2 $3 will be
>> > > >substituted by 5 6 7 instead of [N] 5 6. This way you could use
>> > > >existing abstractions as they are, without the need for writing
>a
>> > > >wrapper abstraction to handle the creation argument forwarding.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Christof
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 17. Mai 2016 um 04:05 Uhr
>> > > >> > > Von: "Miller Puckette" <msp at ucsd.edu[msp at ucsd.edu]>
>> > > >> > > An: "Jaime Oliver"
><jaime.oliver2 at gmail.com[jaime.oliver2 at gmail.com]>
>> > > >> > > Cc: "Christof Ressi"
><christof.ressi at gmx.at[christof.ressi at gmx.at]>, Pd-list
>> > > ><pd-list at lists.iem.at[pd-list at lists.iem.at]>
>> > > >> > > Betreff: Re: [PD] [clone]'s instance number
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > Cool, taking this suggestion. At least for now it will
>work
>> > > >either way,
>> > > >> > > but it's much more readable with the abstraction name
>first so I
>> > > >changed the
>> > > >> > > help file to invoke it that way.
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > cheers
>> > > >> > > Miller
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 01:13:37PM -0400, Jaime Oliver
>wrote:
>> > > >> > > > Well,
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > What would happen if instead of calling clone like:
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > [clone 16 my-abstraction 1 5 9]
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > we called it with:
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > [clone my-abstraction 16 1 5 9]
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > and then $1 seems quite appropriate.
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > ?
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > J
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > On May 11, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Christof Ressi
>> > > ><christof.ressi at gmx.at[christof.ressi at gmx.at]> wrote:
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > I agree that $1 is most natural!
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > However, what about adding an additional flag -foo for
>> > > >[clone], which changes the way creation arguments are parsed?
>> > > >> > > > > Passing -foo could ignore the object ID and rather
>forward
>> > > >creation arguments just as they are.
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > This wouldn't break the current behaviour of [clone],
>but
>> > > >provide some functionality to deal with ordinary abstractions
>more
>> > > >conveniently.
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > Christof
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2016 um 18:06 Uhr
>> > > >> > > > > Von: "Ivica Bukvic" <ico at vt.edu[ico at vt.edu]>
>> > > >> > > > > An: "Miller Puckette" <msp at ucsd.edu[msp at ucsd.edu]>
>> > > >> > > > > Cc: "IOhannes m zmoelnig"
><zmoelnig at iem.at[zmoelnig at iem.at]>, Pd-list
>> > > ><pd-list at lists.iem.at[pd-list at lists.iem.at]>, "Christof Ressi"
><christof.ressi at gmx.at[christof.ressi at gmx.at]>
>> > > >> > > > > Betreff: Re: [PD] [clone]'s instance number
>> > > >> > > > > What about having an if statement that detects clone
>object
>> > > >and if so, compensates for $2 discrepancy and assigns $1 to it
>instead
>> > > >and increments from there? This way the discrepancy is
>internalized as
>> > > >opposed to something user needs to deal with.
>> > > >> > > > > --
>> > > >> > > > > Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
>> > > >> > > > > Associate Professor
>> > > >> > > > > Computer Music
>> > > >> > > > > ICAT Senior Fellow
>> > > >> > > > > Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
>> > > >> > > > > Virginia Tech
>> > > >> > > > > School of Performing Arts – 0141
>> > > >> > > > > Blacksburg, VA 24061
>> > > >> > > > > (540) 231-6139
>> > > >> > > > > ico at vt.edu[ico at vt.edu]
>> > > >> > > > >
>www.performingarts.vt.edu[http://www.performingarts.vt.edu][http://www.performingarts.vt.edu[http://www.performingarts.vt.edu]]
>> > > >> > > > >
>disis.icat.vt.edu[http://disis.icat.vt.edu][http://disis.icat.vt.edu[http://disis.icat.vt.edu]]
>> > > >> > > > >
>l2ork.icat.vt.edu[http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu][http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu[http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu]]
>> > > >> > > > >
>ico.bukvic.net[http://ico.bukvic.net][http://ico.bukvic.net[http://ico.bukvic.net]]
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > On May 11, 2016 11:50, "Miller Puckette"
>> > > ><msp at ucsd.edu[msp at ucsd.edu][msp at ucsd.edu[msp at ucsd.edu]]> wrote:I
>gave this some thought but
>> > > >couldn't come up with anything more natural than
>> > > >> > > > > the "$1" idea. It allows for changing the other
>arguments
>> > > >more easily than
>> > > >> > > > > it would have been if the instance number were passed
>last.
>> > > >Also, somehow
>> > > >> > > > > it felt more natural to have the instance number
>first.
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > If there's interest in the idea, I could add
>arrguments to
>> > > >change the
>> > > >> > > > > behavior (such as putting $1 last instead of first)...
>> > > >Offhand I doubt that
>> > > >> > > > > would get used much though.
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > cheers
>> > > >> > > > > Miller
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 05:26:21PM +0200, Christof
>Ressi
>> > > >wrote:
>> > > >> > > > >> There's also a pitfall: additional creation arguments
>for
>> > > >the cloned abstraction will start with $2.
>> > > >> > > > >> For example, in [clone 16 my-abstraction 1 5 9] '1'
>will be
>> > > >parsed as $2, '5' as $3, '9' as $4 etc.
>> > > >> > > > >> No problem, if the abstraction was written for being
>used
>> > > >with [clone], but bad when cloning existing abstractions.
>> > > >> > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > >> I'm wondering if there could be a way to get the
>abstraction
>> > > >ID without messing up existing abstractions... Maybe have a
>dedicated
>> > > >object?
>> > > >> > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > >> For now, I think it's important to mention the
>parsing of
>> > > >additional creation arguments in the help file.
>> > > >> > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > >> Christof
>> > > >> > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > >>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2016 um 16:25 Uhr
>> > > >> > > > >>> Von: "IOhannes m zmoelnig"
>> > >
>><zmoelnig at iem.at[zmoelnig at iem.at][zmoelnig at iem.at[zmoelnig at iem.at]]>
>> > > >> > > > >>> An:
>pd-list at lists.iem.at[pd-list at lists.iem.at][pd-list at lists.iem.at[pd-list at lists.iem.at]]
>> > > >> > > > >>> Betreff: Re: [PD] [clone]'s instance number
>> > > >> > > > >>>
>> > > >> > > > >>> On 2016-05-11 16:18, Liam Goodacre wrote:
>> > > >> > > > >>>> Would it be possible to access [clone]'s unique
>instance
>> > > >number from within the patch, a bit like a creation argument?
>This
>> > > >could be used to achieve differentiation between the
>abstractions, ie.
>> > > >if the abstraction contains "tabread4~ $-1.array" and the $-1 is
>> > > >replaced with the instance number, then each instance could read
>a
>> > > >different file. Of course there are other ways of doing this,
>but it
>> > > >would be neat to do it with clone, and I'm wondering if there's
>a way.
>> > > >> > > > >>>
>> > > >> > > > >>>
>> > > >> > > > >>> isn't this what $1 is already doing in clone's
>instances?
>> > > >> > > > >>>
>> > > >> > > > >>>
>> > > >> > > > >>> fgasdmr
>> > > >> > > > >>> IOhannes
>> > > >> > > > >>>
>> > > >> > > > >>> _______________________________________________
>> > > >> > > > >>>
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>> > > >> > > > >>
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