[PD] bendin bug (?)

Giulio Moro giuliomoro at yahoo.it
Mon Sep 12 21:14:09 CEST 2016


As far as intuitiveness is concerned, -1 to 0.999878 is the most intuitive range for me.Just to make a point that intuitiveness is arbitrary. I would encourage to adopt the MIDI specifications and use those numbers [0-16383] OR a normalized value -1 to 0.999878. -8192 to 8191 sits somewhere in between, breaks free from the specs and yet is not intuitive to use.
I would also advocate that we should not change the behaviour of an object that has been there for ages, so a +1 for deprecating [bendin] [bendout] for [pitchebendin] [pitchbendout].
MIDI specs are at revision 1.0 and have always been, afaik, so I take it the pitch bend always was supposed to be a double precision value. A further intuition is: switching from single- to double- precision would have broken all existing MIDI devices which implemented running status.
Best,Giulio

 
      From: Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com>
 To: Miller Puckette <msp at ucsd.edu> 
Cc: "pd-list at lists.iem.at" <pd-list at lists.iem.at>
 Sent: Monday, 12 September 2016, 20:01
 Subject: Re: [PD] bendin bug (?)
   
2016-09-12 15:31 GMT-03:00 Miller Puckette <msp at ucsd.edu>:

In fact I thought there already was one in Cyclone.


The one in cyclone is [xbendin] and [xbendout] and they both go from 0 to 1383. I find this pair of objects quite obsolete and I don't know why they were put in cyclone, as they don't do anything different than Pd's bendin/bendout - they are consistent between themselves though.
Max also has bendin/benout, but the 'x' variance seems to be newer and with a different range, cause the old - but still existing - bendin/bendout objects in Max are only 7 bits (from 0 to 127). BTW, Miller, can you confirm pitch bend messages were only 7 bits back in the day? And do you know when this changed to 14 bits?
Funny enough, max has inconsistencies with other objects. 
Quite recently, in the 7.2.0 version (Max is now at 7.2.4), the objects [midiformat] and [midiparse] were finally updated to include 14 bits pitch bend messages, via a '@hires' attribute. The ones in cyclone are still only 7 bits (0-127).
We (Me and Derek) just updated these objects in our currently unreleased cyclone update project to include 14 bit pitch bend messages. In conjunction with Pd's [midiin] / [midiout], they can replace [bendin] / [bendout] related objects, but it is just too clumsy for that. And the silly thing is that they chose for them the more intuitive range from -8192 to 8191, making it inconsistent to xbendin/xbendout. We adopted this more intuitive range anyway.
I was then checking bendin/bendout in Pd to see if they were also from -8192 to 8191 and then found this inconsistency.
So, in short: yeah; xbendin/xbendout in cyclone can be used for a consistent range between MIDI in/output. But then I still think these objects are quite obsolete, cause bendin/out are basic elements present in vanilla. And I it is also weird to me to have them as a way to replace existing objects in vanilla.
> Yet another idea would be to make a new object name (pitchbendin/out) 

Cool. Whatever the solution is, I'm hoping for a vanilla fix so both pitch bend in/out messages are consistent in vanilla. I'm ok with any solution, but I'm just hoping that both make use of the more intuitive -8192 to 8191 range.
cheers
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