[PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was Re: Purr Data rc1)

Ivica Ico Bukvic ico at vt.edu
Sun Dec 4 18:07:57 CET 2016


Another thing that pd-l2ork's comment does that makes it theoretically 
incompatible with vanilla, it recognizes line breaks and saves them. It 
uses ASCII 11 to save it into the .pd file which is vertical tab that is 
by and large unused. While vanilla shows line breaks when creating an 
object, cutting and pasting it, or saving, closing, and reopening the 
file shows that they don't get saved. As a result a lot of patches 
sidestep this by using multiple comments, which is hard to maintain, 
particularly when it comes to writing documentation.


Both improvements pd-l2ork uses could be easily ported back to vanilla 
as I cannot think of a scenario where it could potentially cause a 
breakage in backwards compatibility.


Best,


Ico


On 12/3/2016 9:10 PM, Liam Goodacre wrote:
>
> Spaces work in labels in L2Ork because they are escaped with a 
> backslash. But this is creating an incompatibility with Vanilla, which 
> then can't read the object's properties.
>
>
> If you want a way to get larger, nicer text into a PD file than 
> allowed with the ctrl+5 comment, the best way might be to use ASCII 
> 255, the non breaking space (" "), which looks like a space but is 
> read like a regular character. It's a bit of a pain to copy it between 
> every word, but it works nicely across platforms once it's in place. A 
> faster option for editing might be to let Vanilla replace spaces with 
> underscores and then edit them in the .pd file with a text editor.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Pd-list <pd-list-bounces at lists.iem.at> on behalf of Jonathan 
> Wilkes via Pd-list <pd-list at lists.iem.at>
> *Sent:* 04 December 2016 01:27
> *To:* Alexandre Torres Porres
> *Cc:* Pd-List
> *Subject:* Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was Re: Purr 
> Data rc1)
> Why not just use the built-in <ctrl-5> comment?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com>
> *To:* Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* Pd-List <pd-list at lists.iem.at>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 2, 2016 1:10 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was Re: Purr 
> Data rc1)
>
> Hi, I see Purr Data has this feature where it accepts spaces in lables 
> such as in canvases... this is awesome, and mostly why I use 
> cyclone/comment
>
> I can see we could depart from how you can lable stuff in Purr Data to 
> make a new working cross platform version of cyclone/comment that is 
> still backwards compatible.
>
> cheers
>
> 2016-11-29 2:28 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com 
> <mailto:porres at gmail.com>>:
>
>     one question, how does canvas and other fonts for labels work in
>     cross platforms?
>
>     why not use that for comment... for now, all cyclone/comment is
>     can be thought of just being a fancy label perhaps...
>
>     I did use it a lot in my new help files that I'm working on, but
>     only cause it'd be too much work to use canvas and labels, as it'd
>     imply a canvas for each word as it doesn't take spaces (is only a
>     symbol)
>
>     I was even thinking of ditching it when, it stopped working on
>     vanilla 0.47 - yeah, that's another thing, a fix needs to be made
>     to vanilla for old versions of comment (0.2 and below to work) -
>     but then I realized it could be really useful. I was also hoping
>     to add properties windows to make it more convenient.
>
>     anyway, the question is, why labels and stuff simply work?
>
>     cheers
>
>
>     2016-11-28 21:45 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika at yahoo.com
>     <mailto:jancsika at yahoo.com>>:
>
>
>
>             Another reason for putting it off is that I still haven't
>             figured out a sane approach
>             to handling arbitrary fonts in a diagram where everything
>             is absolutely positioned.
>             In fact I only have a minimally-workable approach to
>             handling a single, mono-
>             spaced font across platforms. For example, there was a
>             change somewhere in
>             the Gnu/Linux font-stack (relatively) recently that
>             renders fonts (or at least
>             DejaVu Sans Mono) noticeably wider than before.  So
>             Windows, OSX, and
>             old Gnu/Linux would render a particular line of text sized
>             at "12px" within less
>             than a single pixel of each other.  The new Gnu/Linux font
>             stack (seen in Ubuntu
>             16.04 and some recent Arch) rendered the same text about 7
>             pixels wider.
>
>             Worse, the newer Gnu/Linux font stack quantizes the "px"
>             sizes such that the
>             next smallest size is noticeably smaller.  So in Ubuntu
>             16.04 I have to compromise
>             by keeping the object box the same size and having some
>             extra padding at the
>             end-- otherwise users of that OS could end up tightly
>             spacing their object chains
>             in ways that cause overlaps on the other platforms.
>
>             So... I'd like to get a handle on that mess first, then
>             handling arbitrary font
>             families-- as in cyclone/comment-- will hopefully be
>             easier and less prone
>             to bugs.
>
>
>         > well, it seems some of the issues are exactly what we're
>         facing now...
>
>         I think those issues are impossible to solve for displaying
>         arbitrary fonts in
>         a diagram like a Pd patch, and especially for arbitrary fonts
>         in multi-line text.
>         The user simply won't be able to predict whether or not there
>         will be collisions
>         on someone else's platform (or even if those fonts aren't
>         available, which fonts
>         will get chosen).
>
>         I'm all for porting cyclone/comment for the sake of Max
>         compatibility. But I'd
>         strongly advise against using cyclone/comment in any patch
>         that's supposed to
>         be used cross-platform (aside from its own help patch, of course).
>
>         -Jonathan
>
>         > cheers
>
>
>
>
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