[PD] New deken feature, create system user folder (was how-do-i-install-externals-and-help-files page (was Re: Linux Global folder for externals)

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Oh, and it's not like Pd doesn't already write stuff in "~/Library", it
actually does create files in "~/Library/preferences", so it's not like
it's a sacred ground it can't touch... I'm still yet to understand what is
the issue of Pd creating a folder in here...

Though I can agree it is a rather unusual place to go. Most softwares won't
do it, and the reason this is being discussed is just that Pd happens to
have that folder as a standard path in the first place... so it's coming
from Pd for some reason. Now, I can see most softwares prefer to use other
folders in the user area, outside this hidden ~/Library folder. For
instance, audiosculpt went for ~/Applications. Max and Native Instruments
went for ~/Documents. The place to install externals for Max is in
~/Documents/Max/Packages.

There's also the "shared" folder. I see Max and Native Instruments there
too. So if you want to install something for all users, that folder seems
to be the one to go.

So I'm now leaning on actually disregarding  ~/Library as a good choice for
creating and using as an external destination... not sure yet why there's a
resistance it's a bad place to go... but if this is why, well, maybe a
better option like these other folders would do.

That would actually work and solve thew other problems I was raising, where
you can't navigate to the ~/Library folder if you want to add it in your
"Path".

This is all for Mac OS of course, and we should check the options for other
systems.

cheers

2017-03-04 19:59 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com>:

> 2017-03-04 15:54 GMT-03:00 Roman Haefeli <reduzent at gmail.com>:
>
>>
>> I really can't share your notion that things are complex from a user
>> perspective. You can use Deken out of the box now.
>
>
> Yes, with the new feature you can, and you couldn't before! My point is
> not that it won't work, but that it can still be further improved beyond
> the advancement being made right now.
>
>
>
>> On Windows >= 7 and on any Linux I know the only user writable option
>> is the user specific folder. I know now this is not true on Macs
>> depending on what check boxes you checked in the system preferences for
>
> the user.
>
>
> It works out of the box for macs, you don't need to set anything up,
> that's my experience... but I guess you can alter the system and prevent it.
>
> So, our thing is that Pd has all these folders as "Standard Paths" but not
> all are usable or writeable. Actually, besides the application folder,
> they're not even created by the software. So we need to find a common
> ground and it seems to be the user folder. So that's a good option for a
> default setting that's consistent for all operating systems. Good.
>
>
>> As far as I know, most software doesn't write any user specific stuff
>> at installation time. How should it know which users are going to use
>> the software and what happens if a user is added _after_ installation?
>>
>
> If a user is installing the software, then it can deduce that this user is
> going to use the software. In the same ~/Library folder here on my mac is
> where the */Audio* folder is, including the *MIDI Drivers* and *Plug-ins*.
> All plugins installers write in here and install the plugins you can use in
> Ableton Live, for instance. And Ableton Live has no problem in searching
> for the plugins over there. That's an example...
>
> It totally makes sense to create any directories and/or write files
>> when they are actually needed. Pd doesn't need /Users/alex/Library/Pd so
>> why should it create it?
>
>
> How come it doesn't need it? Isn't it one of Pd's Standasr Paths for
> starters?More over, isn't the folder we're realizing is the only writeable
> and best option for all platforms? What do you mean? Sorry, I don't get it.
>
>
>> It's hard if you want to do specific stuff that requires special
>> knowledge.
>
>
> All that is hard can be made easier... I just suggested a few solutions.
>
>
>> I don't see how it is hard if you want to just download and
>> use an external.
>
>
> There are different options for downloading and using an external. Right
> now, this is not well documented or made easy to achieve. Ok, we got one
> step further with this update and at least we can download and use it.
>
> Having said that, loading stuff from libraries correctly is still complex,
>> more complex than necessary, in my opinion.
>>
>
> great, then we're on the same track after all.
>
>
>> I wish calling the library by name would be enough, regardless of its
>> internal layout.
>>
>
> +1 on that
>
> cheers
>
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