[PD] New users and external path struggles

[Christof Ressi]

Hi, thanks for explaining!

> "standard path" to refer to "stuff distributed with Pd"

that would make sense if 'extra' would be the only stdpath. but there's also C:/Users/Christof/AppData/Roaming/Pd etc. and these are usually used for application user data. also, we came to get used to [declare -stdpath folder] resp. [declare -stdlib folder] to load/access a library which is being used for several projects VS [declare -path folder] resp. [declare -path folder] for a library which is local to a specific project.

this way it always seemed natural that we put our libaries into stdpaths, so we can load them selectively with [declare].

also, in pd-0.48.0test6 only folders in the standard paths show up in the "Libraries" section in the help browser. 

> the way forward is to somehow get the "path" mechanism to do what people are
> asking for.

I think so too! this implies that [declare] has to work with user paths. the question is how: including user paths in -stdpath? or introducing a new flag?

once this works, the user only has to create a folder somewhere in his system, ask deken to download there and load libraries with [declare]. "Startup..." already looks for libraries in the user paths, so that's fine already.

Christof


> Gesendet: Sonntag, 30. Juli 2017 um 20:56 Uhr
> Von: "Miller Puckette" <msp at ucsd.edu>
> An: "Alexandre Torres Porres" <porres at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Christof Ressi" <christof.ressi at gmx.at>, pd-list <pd-list at iem.at>
> Betreff: Re: [PD] New users and external path struggles
>
> Except perhaps in this thread I can try to explain... I always meant
> "standard path" to refer to "stuff distributed with Pd", and "Path" to
> be adjustible to point to libraries that are not part of the Pd distribution.
> I think part of the confusion comes from different possible interpretations
> of "standard path" (which, as I now realize, is badly named).  But I think
> the way forward is to somehow get the "path" mechanism to do what people are
> asking for.
> 
> cheers
> Miller
> 
> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 03:46:38PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > once again, check that github discussion
> > <https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/139> and see what you make of
> > it...
> > 
> > 
> > 2017-07-30 15:33 GMT-03:00 Christof Ressi <christof.ressi at gmx.at>:
> > 
> > > > on a view against a consensus we seem to have here, in which a standard
> > > search path is not a place for externals,
> > >
> > > but that's rather absurd. what is the use of a standard path if not a
> > > place where to put libraries? you described it beautifully in your HOWTO:
> > >
> > > application specific standard path = only for this Pd installation
> > > user specific standard path = only for Pd installations of this user
> > > global standard path = for all Pd installations
> > >
> > > who actually disagrees with this?
> > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > user defined search paths are a nice feature but they have a serious
> > > disadvantage: you can't interface them with [declare], so it's not the best
> > > thing to use with libraries. I think this is important to remember!
> > > maybe this could be resolved by adding another flag to [declare] for user
> > > defined paths, like [declare -user myfolder]. this would be a very cool
> > > feature anyway!
> > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > I think for experienced users the situation is fine. I'm really happy with
> > > Deken on Windows right now. The problem is rather that the standard search
> > > paths are awkward for beginners on Windows and OSX. They are either hidden
> > > or users don't have writing permission.
> > >
> > > personally I really think that the user specific standard path should be
> > > autocreated (by the installer and/or Deken) - like any other program does.
> > > when I install REAPER on Windows I automatically get a folder
> > > C:\Users\Christof\AppData\Roaming\REAPER
> > >
> > > but I also like Alex' idea that Deken should always initially propose the
> > > user specific standard path and create it when you want to install there!
> > >
> > > sorry for being redundand but I think we have to find a consensus on this
> > > sooner or later, not necessarily for this release!
> > >
> > > Christof
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 30. Juli 2017 um 19:27 Uhr
> > > Von: "Alexandre Torres Porres" <porres at gmail.com>
> > > An: "Christof Ressi" <christof.ressi at gmx.at>
> > > Cc: "Jesse Mejia" <jmejia at anestheticaudio.com>, pd-list <pd-list at iem.at>
> > > Betreff: Re: [PD] New users and external path struggles
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2017-07-30 14:06 GMT-03:00 Christof Ressi <christof.ressi at gmx.at[mailto:
> > > christof.ressi at gmx.at]>:
> > > So are there arguments against documents/pd as a standard search path?
> > > Let's stay clear from the autocreation topic for now.
> > >
> > > The arguments seem to be based on a view against a consensus we seem to
> > > have here, in which a standard search path is not a place for externals,
> > > and that it'd be the same as a "user added path". You can check the github
> > > discussion and see what you make of it.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I tried pointing it out in my first response to this thread, when
> > > I said: "you mention issues related to Pd's current "Standard Paths", given
> > > that it is clear to you that this is the best practice for externals.
> > > Surprisingly, that is not a consensus between developers. (...) "User added
> > > search paths" are not the same as a "standard path", I agree (...) That's
> > > also something I suspect is causing many confusion, which would be a notion
> > > that a "user added search path" would be exactly the same as a "standard
> > > path", but it isn't.
> > >
> 
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