[PD] Dejavu on ms-windows was: (Re: [PD-announce] Pd 0.48-1 test version released)

Tue Dec 12 23:52:09 CET 2017

Good.

I'm glad that we talked about it and find answers to our legitimate questions.

Since it's a TCL extension, worse case is that it can't be loaded and Pd runs fine without it. So less of a worry  in some ways as compared to a C library.

So you are starting to like the TWAPI thing?

Could you review the PR and approve or disapprove it, or request changes?

I don't have anything left to say on this issue.

: )

Lucarda.

Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.

On 12/12/2017 7:21 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I don't think asking a couple legitimate questions is paranoia. When adding any kind of library to a software project, you always want to balance what the library provides with having another dependency. It can be easy to add the kitchen sink but hard to maintain it.

Since it's a TCL extension, worse case is that it can't be loaded and Pd runs fine without it. So less of a worry  in some ways as compared to a C library.

enohp ym morf tnes
-----------
Dan Wilcox
danomatika.com<http://danomatika.com>
robotcowboy.com<http://robotcowboy.com>

On Dec 12, 2017, at 9:43 PM, Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27 at hotmail.com<mailto:lucarda27 at hotmail.com>> wrote:

@Dan

more:

Why are you paranoid about TWAPI<http://twapi.magicsplat.com/> ?
Is open source.
Is up and running since 2007, last update november 2017.

Developers surely had tested that it works from win7 to win10.

Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.

On 12/12/2017 1:57 PM, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:

@ Dan

I think TWAPI works on any windows machine.
I'm not against that we do it your way but does that means it will work on all windows versions?
Will you be able to test that?
I'm saying this just to save your time. We can use TWAPI now and you have plenty of time to find something better some future sunday afternoon.

Here the PR (it didn't took me 10minutes): https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/270

Here is a Test version (also it didn't took me 10minutes): http://lucarda.com.ar/x/dejavu/pd-dejavu-test-w32.zip

Is working on win8.1 & win10 (I don't have a win7 atm to test)

Can you test it on a win7 machine?

Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.

On 12/12/2017 8:15 AM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
You misunderstand me.

I'm not against something that #1 works and is #2 maintainable. I'm not sure that this fix is either yet. You can, of course, do some testing and prove that it meets #1 and #2. I naturally do *not* speak for Miller who largely ends up responsible for many of these things, but I'm really just trying to be similarly skeptical towards solutions that involve adding all sorts of *this* and *that*.

#1 Works:

TWAPI is a precompiled TCL/TK library for the Windows API, does the binary you've included work for *all* versions of Windows versions that Pd users are likely to have (or at least most)? The catch should handle most problems but if *lots* of people are using Windows 7 and this doesn't actually work on Windows 7 but works for *you* on say Windows 10, then maybe it's not a real fix yet? I know the windows api has been historically stable but I don't know about C libs & TCL libs complied against it.

#2 Maintainable:

How often does TWAPI change? Is it stable? Who will keep track of updating the binary copy in the Pd repo?

(#3) Also, I'm against requiring an entire single-platform library for essentially 2 loading calls. This is really one of my more main reasons to be skeptical as, once again, we can write our *own* tiny C TCL binding library just for Pd which loads the fonts and is only built & loaded on Windows. I've found documentation and sample code on doing this, I just have not been able to find the time to get to it yet. I feel this approach would be more maintainable and understandable in the longer run even if it's not a 10 minute solution.

We have been moving in steps: getting Pd to build in autotools on Windows leads directly to building a tiny font loading library. :) Step by step...

On Dec 7, 2017, at 6:40 PM, Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27 at hotmail.com<mailto:lucarda27 at hotmail.com>> wrote:

Note: DejaVu Sans Mono is the default font but it's not currently shipped with or loaded by Pd on Windows yet. There is some extra work needed for this

I got work on this, see:

http://lucarda.com.ar/x/dejavu/readme.html

@Dan

Do I make a PR and we forget about it?

Is not a big deal and you always opposed it. I think an other method will be always postponed and will make it by 0.57-9test3.

: -)

--

Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.

On 12/7/2017 10:40 AM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
Yes, the sizes are a little smaller/tighter and come from Pd-extended. Things work best with DejaVu Sans Mono so rendering should be the same using the same font. For more info, see: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/159

If everyone ends up hating this, we could just go back to Courier on all platforms. At least then we wouldn't have to ship a font....

Note: DejaVu Sans Mono is the default font but it's not currently shipped with or loaded by Pd on Windows yet. There is some extra work needed for this and it seemed important to fix the sizing issues on macOS first. I wrote up some info about the fonts in https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/font/README.txt

Also, zooming now works for all guis, the inlets & outlets are the same height, lots of little drawing bugs were fixed (VU scale not completly hidden), etc etc etc.

On Dec 5, 2017, at 7:35 PM, pd-list-request at lists.iem.at<mailto:pd-list-request at lists.iem.at> wrote:

Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 18:14:59 +0000
From: Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27 at hotmail.com<mailto:lucarda27 at hotmail.com>>
To: "pd-list at lists.iem.at<mailto:pd-list at lists.iem.at>" <pd-list at lists.iem.at<mailto:pd-list at lists.iem.at>>, Christof Ressi
<christof.ressi at gmx.at<mailto:christof.ressi at gmx.at>>
Subject: Re: [PD] Fw: Re: [PD-announce] Pd 0.48-1 test version
released
Message-ID:
<BLUPR01MB552BC5EB5950BA429B62D5FA63D0 at BLUPR01MB552.prod.exchangelabs.com<mailto:BLUPR01MB552BC5EB5950BA429B62D5FA63D0 at BLUPR01MB552.prod.exchangelabs.com>>

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Hi Christof,

Yes this changes were totally intentional, and are for good IMO, now patches render the same on all platforms!.

They were well tested, see: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/227

: - )

--------
Dan Wilcox
@danomatika<http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com<http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com<http://robotcowboy.com/>

--------
Dan Wilcox
@danomatika<http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com<http://danomatika.com>
robotcowboy.com<http://robotcowboy.com>

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