[PD] Advice on distributing pd-based software for apple

João Pais jmmmpais at gmail.com
Sat Sep 19 11:04:28 CEST 2020

"my thing" is to make my program available to people who don't know what
pd, unix, or a terminal is and just want to play their instrument. these
people have chosen and paid for their hardware to work with, and all those
arguments are moot for them. I guess I can tell them "more than half of the
world is wrong and I am right, you all should correct yourself and do as I
say", but I think it won't take me far.

On Sat, 19 Sep 2020 at 10:47, Josh Moore <kh405.7h30ry at gmail.com> wrote:

> Then pay Apple for the privilege of catering to musicians if that's your
> thing more than ethics of a company acting worse than Bill Gates and
> Ballmer era Microsoft combined when it comes to being tone deaf towards the
> developer community and anti-competitive business practices.  There's
> really not much way around this problem, and they aren't going to change
> their mind without a court injunction over their antitrust behavior which
> might be coming sooner rather than later. Even so, you could also build
> upon Raspberry Pis, Belas, and other types of that kind of platform and
> sell pre-configured instruments for musicians as well and target modular,
> and you would make some money from it as well. That ecosystem right now is
> very healthy.
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 1:34 AM João Pais <jmmmpais at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Unfortunately that's not applicable in my case.  Most musicians use
>> apple,  and telling them all that will be met with a shrug and a "so what"?
>> Josh Moore <kh405.7h30ry at gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 19. Sep. 2020, 07:57:
>>> Not sure it's even really worth it. Apple is hostile to open source and
>>> multi-platform stuff these days and everyone else who isn't them to be
>>> quite honest.
>>> They want to control graphics (deprecate opengl, don't support vulkan,
>>> force everyone to use their special API completely incompatible with
>>> everything else, boot Epic's engine cuz it doesn't want to pay a premium
>>> conveniently during their push for Arcade and all of this)
>>> They want to control their processors, lock them down, force you to pay
>>> a hundred bucks a year to access the latest development tools or distribute
>>> applications, and reject anything they don't like or competes with anything
>>> they have unless they make more money from you than they make from their
>>> own software.
>>> All anyone needs to do is fork some RTOS *nix microkernel with decent
>>> support for graphics hardware and nobody has a reason to use that stuff
>>> anymore unless they want to use Logic. This is basically what Blackmagic
>>> did for their new hardware, it's all RTLinux as is a lot of the new digital
>>> consoles. But regardless of my gripes with Apple's crappy antics lately
>>> these things are really something Miller himself needs to take up with
>>> Apple as they do offer free app store access to universities and they might
>>> be interested in embedding Pdlib in logic environment to compete with
>>> Ableton. We'd have to get externals merged by Miller for this to work out
>>> though as since the whole Unreal Engine debacle caused Apple to change
>>> their ToS requiring each piece of code/app has to be ran through
>>> their approval process or they'll cut you off of xcode/app store/apple id
>>> with no recourse. But beyond that it's so much cheaper especially for the
>>> students this software is aimed at primarily to just stick pd on a RT
>>> patched linux kernel on a 50 dollar ARM SBC and call it good.
>>> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 8:53 AM João Pais <jmmmpais at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi list,
>>>> I'm preparing a package based on Pd work, but I run into annoying
>>>> problems with recent apple OSs, namely notarization and security. Things
>>>> seem to work if the user commits to switching off all security protocols,
>>>> but for people who don't know Pd, they might be squeamish about this.
>>>> Therefore I wanted to ask a couple of questions to someone who might have
>>>> experience in distributing pd-based patches.
>>>> For clarity: the package is a max patch (for both runtime and
>>>> standalone versions), with the Pd app and patches included in a supporting
>>>> folder - running with the recent pd~ object. When done properly, the user
>>>> won't even be aware that pd itself is running.
>>>> - how can one avoid asking a user to allow safety access to Pd and its
>>>> externals? And while at that, to the max standalone as well?
>>>> - I'm myself a windows user, and don't have a mac - I can only get the
>>>> standalone compiled when a friend grants me access to his computer. Which
>>>> system do you advise to prepare a package? It works fine in 10.13, from
>>>> 10.15 seems to be problematic.
>>>> - I had a look at codesigning a package, but it seems that it's
>>>> necessary to sign up as an apple developer and pay 100us a year, which I'm
>>>> not willing to do. The package won't be going to any app store, it's just
>>>> to distribute as a zip file for computers. Any way to circumvent this?
>>>> Best,
>>>> jmmmp
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