[PD] Advice on distributing pd-based software for apple

João Pais jmmmpais at gmail.com
Sat Sep 19 12:36:58 CEST 2020

that's unfortunately not a practical solution either, to buy more hardware.
the software already ran on laptops, and several people preferred an app
(which is an even worse minefield for a developer).

I think no one should buy apple anyway, but many people do, and my problem
is how to get to them.

On Sat, 19 Sep 2020 at 11:12, Josh Moore <kh405.7h30ry at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well what I'm saying is the musicians who don't even know what pd, unix,
> or a terminal is might be more warm to just buying an instrument that has
> pd inside of it especially in this era of "anti-DAW" electronic music
> trends, and music in general where almost any new gear that's had software
> out in the sort of depths of experimental hell have had gear issues of the
> same thing and get immediately picked up by big magazines.  You can buy an
> organelle with pd inside of it today.
> https://www.engadget.com/2019-11-08-critter-and-guitari-organelle-music-computer-review-jack-of-all-trades.html
> Nothing really stops you from doing the same thing. It's not my decision
> to do what Apple has done, That is all on them. I i just don't  believe you
> should be practically forced to pay a company to distribute a free project
> on their platform.
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 2:04 AM João Pais <jmmmpais at gmail.com> wrote:
>> "my thing" is to make my program available to people who don't know what
>> pd, unix, or a terminal is and just want to play their instrument. these
>> people have chosen and paid for their hardware to work with, and all those
>> arguments are moot for them. I guess I can tell them "more than half of the
>> world is wrong and I am right, you all should correct yourself and do as I
>> say", but I think it won't take me far.
>> On Sat, 19 Sep 2020 at 10:47, Josh Moore <kh405.7h30ry at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Then pay Apple for the privilege of catering to musicians if that's your
>>> thing more than ethics of a company acting worse than Bill Gates and
>>> Ballmer era Microsoft combined when it comes to being tone deaf towards the
>>> developer community and anti-competitive business practices.  There's
>>> really not much way around this problem, and they aren't going to change
>>> their mind without a court injunction over their antitrust behavior which
>>> might be coming sooner rather than later. Even so, you could also build
>>> upon Raspberry Pis, Belas, and other types of that kind of platform and
>>> sell pre-configured instruments for musicians as well and target modular,
>>> and you would make some money from it as well. That ecosystem right now is
>>> very healthy.
>>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 1:34 AM João Pais <jmmmpais at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Unfortunately that's not applicable in my case.  Most musicians use
>>>> apple,  and telling them all that will be met with a shrug and a "so what"?
>>>> Josh Moore <kh405.7h30ry at gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 19. Sep. 2020,
>>>> 07:57:
>>>>> Not sure it's even really worth it. Apple is hostile to open source
>>>>> and multi-platform stuff these days and everyone else who isn't them to be
>>>>> quite honest.
>>>>> They want to control graphics (deprecate opengl, don't support vulkan,
>>>>> force everyone to use their special API completely incompatible with
>>>>> everything else, boot Epic's engine cuz it doesn't want to pay a premium
>>>>> conveniently during their push for Arcade and all of this)
>>>>> They want to control their processors, lock them down, force you to
>>>>> pay a hundred bucks a year to access the latest development tools or
>>>>> distribute applications, and reject anything they don't like or competes
>>>>> with anything they have unless they make more money from you than they make
>>>>> from their own software.
>>>>> All anyone needs to do is fork some RTOS *nix microkernel with decent
>>>>> support for graphics hardware and nobody has a reason to use that stuff
>>>>> anymore unless they want to use Logic. This is basically what Blackmagic
>>>>> did for their new hardware, it's all RTLinux as is a lot of the new digital
>>>>> consoles. But regardless of my gripes with Apple's crappy antics lately
>>>>> these things are really something Miller himself needs to take up with
>>>>> Apple as they do offer free app store access to universities and they might
>>>>> be interested in embedding Pdlib in logic environment to compete with
>>>>> Ableton. We'd have to get externals merged by Miller for this to work out
>>>>> though as since the whole Unreal Engine debacle caused Apple to change
>>>>> their ToS requiring each piece of code/app has to be ran through
>>>>> their approval process or they'll cut you off of xcode/app store/apple id
>>>>> with no recourse. But beyond that it's so much cheaper especially for the
>>>>> students this software is aimed at primarily to just stick pd on a RT
>>>>> patched linux kernel on a 50 dollar ARM SBC and call it good.
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 8:53 AM João Pais <jmmmpais at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi list,
>>>>>> I'm preparing a package based on Pd work, but I run into annoying
>>>>>> problems with recent apple OSs, namely notarization and security. Things
>>>>>> seem to work if the user commits to switching off all security protocols,
>>>>>> but for people who don't know Pd, they might be squeamish about this.
>>>>>> Therefore I wanted to ask a couple of questions to someone who might have
>>>>>> experience in distributing pd-based patches.
>>>>>> For clarity: the package is a max patch (for both runtime and
>>>>>> standalone versions), with the Pd app and patches included in a supporting
>>>>>> folder - running with the recent pd~ object. When done properly, the user
>>>>>> won't even be aware that pd itself is running.
>>>>>> - how can one avoid asking a user to allow safety access to Pd and
>>>>>> its externals? And while at that, to the max standalone as well?
>>>>>> - I'm myself a windows user, and don't have a mac - I can only get
>>>>>> the standalone compiled when a friend grants me access to his computer.
>>>>>> Which system do you advise to prepare a package? It works fine in 10.13,
>>>>>> from 10.15 seems to be problematic.
>>>>>> - I had a look at codesigning a package, but it seems that it's
>>>>>> necessary to sign up as an apple developer and pay 100us a year, which I'm
>>>>>> not willing to do. The package won't be going to any app store, it's just
>>>>>> to distribute as a zip file for computers. Any way to circumvent this?
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> jmmmp
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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