[PD] '$0' in messages again, another proposal? (Was: Pd 0.52 test 2 is out)
Alexandre Torres Porres
porres at gmail.com
Thu Dec 2 07:37:36 CET 2021
Em qua., 1 de dez. de 2021 às 17:44, Miller Puckette via Pd-list <
pd-list at lists.iem.at> escreveu:
> I think having a "message" object is a better idea. Only thing is, it
> does raise some interesting design questions of its own - like, what of
> sending more than one message; how to specify destination names without
> using the ';' separator
Hmm, I don't understand the questions :)
I am using the ";" separator in my external object. It all works inside the
object box just exactly like a message box. So you can also use commas and
separate more than one message.
Now, the idea for my object is that it also works as a message storage
object, that is, like a "float" or "symbol" object, but one that can store
any kinda of message. Then, it can receive messages from messages in the
cold and hot inlet. And we can set ";" and "," by escaping them with "\".
So sending *1 \, 2 \, 3* *1 \, 2 \ , 3* to its hot inler makes it output 3
messages ("1", "2" and "3") and this gets stored.
By the way, I can also escape "$", so if I send it * \; \$0-x 8 *it sends
"8" to a [receive $0-x] object. If you want to specify a literal "$0", you
can send it "\\$0"...
A "bang" in the left inlet outputs the message, but I also made the objcct
clickable, so clicking on it sends the message.
But then, of course this can be simpler, and just have one inlet, for a
bang, no click, no cold inlet, for starters, what do. you people think?
> and what if we allowed expressions ...
>
what do you mean?
cheers
>
> cheers
> Miller
>
> On Wed, Dec 01, 2021 at 09:34:15PM +0100, Christof Ressi wrote:
> > > what if we introduce double dollar syntax to grab patch arguments?
> > Actually, I already thought about that. The problem is that "$" is only
> > interpreted as a dollar or dollarsym if it is followed by a number. So
> > currently "$$" is not a reserved token, meaning that "$$" is a valid
> symbol.
> > We *could* reserve it, but we risk breaking some patches. Assuming that
> only
> > very few patches will be affected by this change, we might decide that
> > extending the functionality of message boxes is more important.
> >
> > Christof
> >
> > On 01.12.2021 21:22, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > > I like the idea.
> > >
> > > Em qua., 1 de dez. de 2021 às 17:14, José de Abreu
> > > <abreubacelar at gmail.com> escreveu:
> > >
> > > I have an idea about $0
> > >
> > > what if we introduce double dollar syntax to grab patch arguments?
> > > and then inside messages $$1 would be first abstraction argument,
> > > while $1 is the the first element of the list (as it already is)
> > >
> > > this way, $$0 in a message would be what $0 is for an object, $$1
> > > would be what $1 is for an object, and so on (this would be
> coherent)
> > >
> > > this way we add the ability to access $0 from an object as $$0 in
> > > a message and as a bonus make easier to get the patch arguments
> > > inside a message too.. this makes sense? what do you think?
> > >
> > > Em qua., 1 de dez. de 2021 16:44, Alexandre Torres Porres
> > > <porres at gmail.com> escreveu:
> > >
> > > Context: we have an open PR that allows us to expand '$0' in
> > > messages. I'd like to know if it's been officially rejected so
> > > we can close it for good and settle the debate. Then maybe
> > > think of something else.
> > >
> > > Miller's response:
> > >
> > > Em sáb., 27 de nov. de 2021 às 21:29, Miller Puckette
> > > <msp at ucsd.edu> escreveu:
> > >
> > > I disagree with the "$0" in message box idea. Why not $1
> > > then?
> > > (Oh, because it already does something different...)
> > >
> > > It would be interestnig to allow message boxes to access
> > > canvas creation
> > > arguments somehow, but not that way.
> > >
> > >
> > > To which me and Christoph argued things like
> > > - /$0 is not a creation argument after all, i.e. it is not
> > > part of "ce_argv". Also, it really //has a different purpose.
> > > (...) $0 would be a special case either way./
> > > - /It was also never documented as an 'argument'. (...) under
> > > a user perspective, we are never aware of it and really expect
> > > to be able to use it inside message boxes so they can
> > > communicate to local [receive] objects (..) We also have
> > > unexpected and weird behaviour in other places. It's all a
> > > matter of documenting./
> > > Now, what I actually have come up as a solution for me, so
> > > far, was designing an external object named "message". It does
> > > all that messages do, they understand comma and semicolons
> > > (and act accordingly). The messages can be set via a right
> > > inlet (with commas and semicolons being possible by escaping
> > > with "\") and the object also acts as a general message
> > > storage object. So the idea is to have something like this
> > > that acts like a message and is an object. Moreover, as an
> > > object, it can also deal with "$1" ... "$2" ... ect as
> > > expected, and as also has been considered here as something
> > > desired.
> > >
> > > If this idea resonates well, I can try and open a PR for it
> > > and we can discuss the design details.
> > >
> > > see screenshot of the object
> > >
> > > cheers
> > >
> > >
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