[PD] [key], [keyup] and operating system key reapat

IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig at iem.at
Wed May 4 10:14:08 CEST 2022

On 5/4/22 09:49, Peter P. wrote:
 >> i guess this would be great for many users of Tcl/Tk.
 >> you might want to file a (wishlist) bug there.
 > If this doesn't provoke nightmares I'd be happy to do, perhaps for
 > documentation purposes only.

it won't provoke nightmares for me (as i wouldn't even know what you are 
doing in the Tcl/Tk bugtracker). YMMV.

On 5/4/22 09:49, Peter P. wrote:
>> PS: i'm happy to fix bugs in the Pd sources; but unlike Dan, I am *not*
>> willing to patch the Tcl/Tk engine for Pd's sake. i guess this saves me from
>> a few nightmares
> Thanks, just to be clear as I am not involved in this coding: The
> problem lies within Tcl/Tk right (and is known within that community of
> coders)?

i have no idea.

the Tcl/Tk community might be aware of the fact, but not see it as a 

like so many things this is probably just a result of different 
decisions that were made on the OS level. (and I assume that Tcl/Tk is 
just passing through the system characteristics).

e.g. on macOS there is this UX guideline, that whenever you change 
something in a properties window, the change is applied immediately.
otoh, Linux and Windows systems typically use a distinct "Apply" button, 
that you have to actively press in order to apply your changes.
now we *could* create a dialog that behaves the same on all platforms, 
which is great as there is now a consistent behaviour of Pd across OSs.
but if we pick the macOS UX guideline, users of Linux or Windows will 
probably be unhappy. or vice-versa.

similar with key repeat: the designers of your desktop environment 
probably (hopefully!) spent some thought on why key repeat behaves as it 
does, but (unfortunately) they came to different solutions as what 
should be the "correct" behaviour.
but if Tcl/Tk chose to abstract that behaviour away to a (new) 
behaviour, that is consistent across all platforms, wouldn't this make 
Tcl/Tk applications behave "weird" in the experience of users who work 
on a system that usually has a behaviour that *differs* from the one 
chosen by Tcl/Tk.

the simplistic answer is of course: if you want your dialogs to behave 
like on Windows, you shouldn't use macOS. if you want your keys to 
repeat like on Linux, you shouldn't use Windows.

in practice this is of course a straw man, as people don't typically 
pick their OSs because they like a given keyrepeat or dialog behaviour.
but it hopefully explains why it's often not so simple to "fix" 
differences between OSs.

having said all that: the Tcl/Tk community might be able to give more 
informed feedback on such a feature request.

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