[PD] some gui objects with grey background in help patches?

[Dan Wilcox]

Howdy all,

without reading too far into this...

1. Alex did *alot* of work (re)structuring *all* of the help files. Thank for that work, Alex.

2. Sometimes people wonder why Pd doesn't change in leaps and bounds. This is one reason: no matter how big or small a change may be, there is always someone with a (valid) reason to *not* want the change. Even for end cases.

3. If the change is as much of as issue that it requires custom scripting or startup flags to address it for some, maybe it's worth considering an additional update to seriously address the issue? Stepping back, is the proposed change to fix the issue that much of a major issue in itself? Worth looking into?

I can think of numerous changes I have made/proposed where I was frankly annoyed by the negative feedback but, after stepping back and looking again, realized that I didn't really care too much about it either way and either changed it back or made an improvement that was different than the original approach.

4. I believe I've brought this up on the list before, but after a certain point, endless discussions about how things "should be" or what constitutes "consistency" is relatively moot. In the end, it comes down to writing code / making changes and getting those changes into the codebase, however this is done.

If this issue is as big as it appears to be, please, clone the GitHub repo, change all of the GUI objects in the help patches back to white, then submit a PR. The details of the technical discussion can continue there, I think.

Don't get me wrong, I am not implying that bringing up an issue is not valid, but really after a certain point of back and forth, things could move forward concretely IMO. :)

> On Nov 21, 2022, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-request at lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 10:05:57 +0100
> From: "Peter P." <peterparker at fastmail.com <mailto:peterparker at fastmail.com>>
> To: pd-list at lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list at lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] some gui objects with grey background in help
> 	patches?
> Message-ID: <20221121090557.pxsmirhxjxhwnqpb at fastmail.com <mailto:20221121090557.pxsmirhxjxhwnqpb at fastmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> * Scott R. Looney <scottrlooney at gmail.com <mailto:scottrlooney at gmail.com>> [2022-11-21 06:56]:
> [...]
>> i guess there might be considered a Tcl/Tk option to not have/draw colored
>> backgrounds in any patch window, similar to how one can change the default
>> canvas background/foreground color currently. 
> I don't think this is a good solution. We definitely do not want more
> options/startup flags.
> 
>> but as for modifying all
>> vanilla help file backgrounds for a few power users used to stark UI
>> design, there would have to be a lot of strong support for that.
> I guess it can be done with a script and wouldn't need to be done
> manually.
> 
>> additionally the comment on Facebook users being considered less 'hardcore'
>> is somewhat prejudicial. there is quite a lot of crossover on FB with
>> mailing list users. 
> Thank you for that point.
> 
>> you should also consider putting this survey on the
>> Discord that Mike(Miguel) Moreno runs as a number of users there are also
>> on the mailing list.
> Yes, or even here:
> https://framadate.org/create_poll.php?type=autre&lang=en <https://framadate.org/create_poll.php?type=autre&lang=en>
> where no accounts are required.
> 
> best, 
> P

--------
Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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