[PD] some gui objects with grey background in help patches?

Max abonnements at revolwear.com
Tue Nov 22 13:32:23 CET 2022

I wanted to add my voice here to say that I like the work Alex did and 
appreciate the many many bug fixes, clarifications, the drive for 
consistency and readability across the help patches. Alex dedicated a 
significant time to this and in my view the result is convincing and a 
clear improvement. I acknowledge that purists may be offended but on the 
other hand they can keep using Pd 0.49 if they like things to stay as 
they were. I think Dan is right with his conclusion.


On 21.11.22 14:41, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> Howdy all,
> without reading too far into this...
> 1. Alex did *alot* of work (re)structuring *all* of the help files. 
> Thank for that work, Alex.
> 2. Sometimes people wonder why Pd doesn't change in leaps and bounds. 
> This is one reason: no matter how big or small a change may be, there is 
> always someone with a (valid) reason to *not* want the change. Even for 
> end cases.
> 3. If the change is as much of as issue that it requires custom 
> scripting or startup flags to address it for some, maybe it's worth 
> considering an additional update to seriously address the issue? 
> Stepping back, is the proposed change to fix the issue that much of a 
> major issue in itself? Worth looking into?
> I can think of numerous changes I have made/proposed where I was frankly 
> annoyed by the negative feedback but, after stepping back and looking 
> again, realized that I didn't really care too much about it either way 
> and either changed it back or made an improvement that was different 
> than the original approach.
> 4. I believe I've brought this up on the list before, but after a 
> certain point, endless discussions about how things "should be" or what 
> constitutes "consistency" is relatively moot. In the end, it comes down 
> to writing code / making changes and getting those changes into the 
> codebase, however this is done.
> If this issue is as big as it appears to be, please, clone the GitHub 
> repo, change all of the GUI objects in the help patches back to white, 
> then submit a PR. The details of the technical discussion can continue 
> there, I think.
> Don't get me wrong, I am not implying that bringing up an issue is not 
> valid, but really after a certain point of back and forth, things could 
> move forward concretely IMO. :)
>> On Nov 21, 2022, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-request at lists.iem.at 
>> <mailto:pd-list-request at lists.iem.at> wrote:
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 10:05:57 +0100
>> From: "Peter P." <peterparker at fastmail.com 
>> <mailto:peterparker at fastmail.com>>
>> To:pd-list at lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list at lists.iem.at>
>> Subject: Re: [PD] some gui objects with grey background in help
>> patches?
>> Message-ID: <20221121090557.pxsmirhxjxhwnqpb at fastmail.com 
>> <mailto:20221121090557.pxsmirhxjxhwnqpb at fastmail.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> Hi Scott,
>> * Scott R. Looney <scottrlooney at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:scottrlooney at gmail.com>> [2022-11-21 06:56]:
>> [...]
>>> i guess there might be considered a Tcl/Tk option to not have/draw 
>>> colored
>>> backgrounds in any patch window, similar to how one can change the 
>>> default
>>> canvas background/foreground color currently.
>> I don't think this is a good solution. We definitely do not want more
>> options/startup flags.
>>> but as for modifying all
>>> vanilla help file backgrounds for a few power users used to stark UI
>>> design, there would have to be a lot of strong support for that.
>> I guess it can be done with a script and wouldn't need to be done
>> manually.
>>> additionally the comment on Facebook users being considered less 
>>> 'hardcore'
>>> is somewhat prejudicial. there is quite a lot of crossover on FB with
>>> mailing list users.
>> Thank you for that point.
>>> you should also consider putting this survey on the
>>> Discord that Mike(Miguel) Moreno runs as a number of users there are also
>>> on the mailing list.
>> Yes, or even here:
>> https://framadate.org/create_poll.php?type=autre&lang=en 
>> <https://framadate.org/create_poll.php?type=autre&lang=en>
>> where no accounts are required.
>> best,
>> P
> --------
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com>
> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com>
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