[PD] Preset management for Pd Vanilla

Sun Nov 12 13:39:53 CET 2023

So, what happens when you get to run Pd-L2Ork on 10.14?

Best,

Ico

-- 
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu

ci.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 00:29 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Yeah, sure, thanks, it's definitely worth looking since you already have
> it working and all. I'm all up for it of course. BTW, I cannot run the
> latest pd-l2ork on my 10.14.6 macOS, but I'm having a look at Purr Data to
> remember how it rolls... I was never able to really fully understand it.
>
> Let me see if I have the slightest idea correctly. It seems you have
> [preset_hub] that manages (stores and recalls) presets. And you have the
> [preset_node] object that connects to GUIs and things you want to store
> data from. BTW, seems like a more "Vanilla like" convention would be a
> single [preset] object, and you could have [preset hub] and [preset node].
> Anyway, if a change to the core is needed and a whole preset system layout
> is to be provided, I wonder if we could also have "preset node names" as
> built in symbols in GUI objects. And it'd be great if we could also have
> interpolation and morphing, with exponential curves, as in my system in
> ELSE, with the [preset hub] object.
>
> cheers
>
> Em dom., 12 de nov. de 2023 às 01:37, Ico Bukvic <ico at vt.edu> escreveu:
>
>> I encourage Miller and the vanilla community to explore pd-l2ork's
>> preset_hub and preset_node (see x_preset.c). It will require pd to adopt
>> keeping glist consistent across various operations (cut/copy/undo/redo
>> etc.). Once done, it allows for presetting of individual objects through
>> various contexts that are both embeddable in the patch or can be saved into
>> a file. Most importantly, this mechanism is able to distinguish between
>> multiple instances of the same abstraction.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Ico
>>
>> --
>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
>> Director, Creativity + Innovation
>> Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
>> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology
>>
>> Virginia Tech
>> Creative Technologies in Music
>> School of Performing Arts – 0141
>> Blacksburg, VA 24061
>> (540) 231-6139
>> ico at vt.edu
>>
>> ci.icat.vt.edu
>> l2ork.icat.vt.edu
>> ico.bukvic.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 7:58 PM Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Em sáb., 11 de nov. de 2023 às 16:11, Alexandre Torres Porres <
>>> porres at gmail.com> escreveu:
>>>
>>>> Or yet a new functionality for [pdcontrol] if not in [send] or a whole
>>>> new object
>>>>
>>>
>>> A "retrieve" method to [value] would actually make sense.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm giving ideas and most probably most of you don't really know
>>> about my preset system in ELSE in detail. The key element is [savestate],
>>> which saves the data in a patch, which are values and receive destinations.
>>> So I'm not thinking of another object for preset management, just using
>>> this existing one for that, as a side product. The data is saved in a
>>> [text] object, which is the best plase to store such a thing and it's the
>>> 2nd key element per se.
>>>
>>> The "retrieve" function is to "grab" the data from objects connected or
>>> bound to existing "receive" objects/symbols. This makes things much easier
>>> and I hope things are clearer.
>>>
>>> [value] seems now like a good candidate for this functionality. It would
>>> require the injection of a lot of code for this, but maybe that's ok, not
>>> sure if this is a good reason to create a whole new object. And it fits
>>> into the idea of [value], which can already send a value to another object,
>>> so why can't it also 'grab'/'retrieve'?
>>>
>>> And also, the external abstraction that I mentioned could also be part
>>> of the 'extra' library that comes with the Pd distribution, which already
>>> has some abstractions anyway. While we're at it, I was already hoping to
>>> include yet another abstraction there, a biquad coefficient calculator for
>>> the [biquad~] object.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 at 16:08 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Else’s has morphing, interpolation, etc and is an abstraction that
>>>>> uses [savestate] and [text] mainly.
>>>>>
>>>>> It also relies on an external, [retrieve], similar to [grab] from MAX.
>>>>> This one gets data from objects connected to named [receive] objects. One
>>>>> could make a vanilla version without it, but it’d be much more complicated.
>>>>> Or we could have a new [grab] / [retrieve] like object in Vanilla, and I
>>>>> could build a Vanilla external abstraction and bring my system to vanilla
>>>>> like that.
>>>>>
>>>>> We maybe don’t even need a new object and could have something like an
>>>>> extra functionality in [send] where it can get things back. I think some
>>>>> net objects work like that and it would hopefully not be too weird or
>>>>> crazy, and maybe people would likewise abuse this for other use cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems like a very not much intrusive addition that opens the door for
>>>>> this. What do you people think?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 at 08:39 KHM t.hartmann <t.hartmann at khm.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> +1 as well, for a native preset system.
>>>>>> Best would be the possibility for interpolation between values in
>>>>>> various ways, from jump to customisable interpolation curves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr. Tobias Hartmann
>>>>>> Künstlerisch-Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter / Assistant Professor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> exMedia - Sound
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kunsthochschule für Medien Köln (KHM)
>>>>>> Academy of Media Arts Cologne
>>>>>> Peter-Welter-Platz 2
>>>>>> 50676 Köln
>>>>>>
>>>>>> t.hartmann at khm.de
>>>>>> +49 (0) 221 20189 228
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.khm.de
>>>>>> www.exmedia.khm.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.hartmanntobias.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 11.11.2023 um 12:02 schrieb hans w. koch <hansw.koch at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +1 for a native preset system. thats the one thing i miss thinking
>>>>>> back of the times i used max/msp (particularily the morphing feature).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> advantage over else: it can then be used in PdParty e.g. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>> hans
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 11.11.2023 um 06:47 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres <
>>>>>> porres at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm revisiting this. I'm proud of my presets system in ELSE but I
>>>>>> think Pd needs something natively. What do you people think and say?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 14:27, Alexandre Torres Porres <
>>>>>> porres at gmail.com> escreveu:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 01:35, Alexandre Torres Porres <
>>>>>> porres at gmail.com> escreveu:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's the "morphing" or "interpolation" thing that I may be still
>>>>>> neglecting and thinking that using things "line" objects is just as fine,
>>>>>> but let's see. I'll also look into how max does interpolation, someone
>>>>>> already told me that, I think I have an idea for that too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I neglected the fact that [line] doesn't work with lists :) so I
>>>>>> created an object that does it called [morph]. Hence, this takes care of
>>>>>> preset transitions. I don't think it's necessary to put this feature inside
>>>>>> the preset object as it makes it more complicated and in the end it's good
>>>>>> this is a separate object as it's also useful outside the preset system and
>>>>>> can be used on its own to morph into different arrays and stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm doing something similar for interpolation, with another object to
>>>>>> allow one to manually interpolate between values and lists of values, also
>>>>>> incorporating that feature from Max. This should all be up in my repository
>>>>>> this weeked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>
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