[PD] "G05.execution.order" issue (bug? just wrong?)

[Joe White]

>
> > It might be a bit misleading to call this behaviour 'undefined'.
> why?


a) for the reasons pointed out previously
b) by virtue of the fact that Alexandre is questioning it (and I would
agree with him)

But how is it "undefined behaviour"? For trigger, for example, I understand
> the order of connections will define the order of messages being sent,
> right? I mean, every time I've tested it, it worked. But is it at some
> level really "undefined" and might not work?


c) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undefined_behavior
d) I'm being pedantic

 what *is* the Pd language then?
> i think that the language of Pd and it's UI are non-separable.


Agree on some level but there *is *a formal language in the netlist that is
predictable, it's just that no one is expected to actually program with it.

certainly you could call it "untrustworthy" though...cos there's no way of
> telling creation order from the GUI, and cut and paste or other re-patching
> is liable to open your patch to changes which would re-order things.
> for all intents and purposes, you're best off thinking of it as totally
> random.


Yeah totally which why I think it's a UI issue and not something to be
pushed onto the User as a bug in their code.

On a sidenote:

Does cut and paste actually change the connection order? That's really
freaky if so.

On 8 September 2015 at 10:27, IOhannes m zmoelnig <zmoelnig at iem.at> wrote:

> On 2015-09-08 11:13, Joe White wrote:
> > It might be a bit misleading to call this behaviour 'undefined'.
>
> why?
>
> >
> > As Alexandre points out, control execution is defined by the order the
> > connections appear in the netlist and so have reliable results each time
> > the patch is run.
> >
> > It's not really the same problem you have in other languages where there
> is
> > a runtime ambiguity.
>
> that's only because we have a single runtime, that has a certain
> implementation which results in a given behaviour for an "undefined" one.
>
> this doesn't make it less "undefined" behaviour.
>
> > And is probably more an issue with the Pd environment UI than
> > the language specification.
>
> what *is* the Pd language then?
> i think that the language of Pd and it's UI are non-separable.
>
> gsdfmasdr
> IOhannes
>
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