[GEM-dev] GEM, OpenGL Depreciation and Metal on OSX

[me.grimm]

>>  My estimation is at least 5 years, probably more.

well this is good news. most of the depreciation warnings are beginning
10.14 although some state 10.9. i assume these will need a "fix" first and
builds will start failing in less than 5 years?

>> will require the same work, over and over again.

yes this sounds horrible

>> there wouldn't be the AVFoundation plugins

yes thanks for the work you and johannes did on these. i think starting a
roadmap is a good way for going forward. i remember the avfoundation
plugins requiring a bit of time to pull together and get useable. i
am imagining a large transition will also be a struggle.

Dan:
what steps to get this started? might you have any interest in
contributing? maybe suggestions of others that have interest?

my dev skills are obviously pretty limited and my memory is not the best so
I spend a lot of time re-learning things. I CAN offer an artist residency
for someone interested in devoting time to this. I do think it is pretty
worthwhile.

cheers
m




On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:56 AM Dan Wilcox <danomatika at gmail.com> wrote:

> OpenGL is deprecated but most likely will not removed for some years as
> there are far too many existing applications using it. The Carbon framework
> is still in macOS in bits and pieces because of this as well. My estimation
> is at least 5 years, probably more.
>
> What will change is the immediate state model that the original OpenGL API
> used. Most of the functionality can be wrapped but GEM should basically
> transition to Vulkan (using the MoltenVK Metal wrapper for macOS) and use
> abstractions where possible instead of exposing the direct graphics API,
> otherwise the *next* graphics API change will require the same work, over
> and over again.
>
> Also, if GEM was dead on macOS, there wouldn't be the AVFoundation plugins.
>
> Yes, there will be a *lot* of work required and I suggest looking to pool
> resources in order to get a team together to consider doing it, but again,
> there are years before OpenGL will disappear.
>
> On Mar 26, 2020, at 10:02 AM, gem-dev-request at lists.iem.at wrote:
>
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 12:47:06 -0400
> From: "me.grimm" <megrimm at gmail.com>
> To: gem-dev <gem-dev at iem.at>
> Subject: [GEM-dev] GEM, OpenGL Depreciation and Metal on OSX
> Message-ID:
> <CACE5Q16LrFzDcuKJbjjRGJHW3J8kiUABm9D1SEc2mPmnYXdy3w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello,
>
> Getting lots of OpenGL depreciation warnings compiling GEM.  macOS is
> moving to its own Metal framework. I assume GEM will fail to run on macOS
> at some point.
>
> What does this mean for GEM on macOS? Is GEM 'dead' on macs? Can it be
> transitioned with something like this: https://moltengl.com/ ? Do large
> parts need to be re-written? Is there any hope?
>
> I would say for macOS users to just go use Ofelia. Unfortunately, the
> Ofelia learning curve seems very steep. For studio arts students that have
> never programed before, never knew they had interest in programing, and are
> learning the basics of creating interactive art, GEM offers very simple
> objects and a consistent visual programing workflow that allows them to
> transition from simple Pd Vanilla objects to GEM very easily. For them,
> patience is not always a strong suit so getting something working quickly
> sustains their interests much longer. Some of them even begin to use Pd/GEM
> combo in their daily practice.
>
> This said, it would be a shame if 'GEM is dead' on macOS. But maybe this is
> an over reaction and the GEM future is bright.
>
> m
>
>
> --------
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
>

-- 
____________________
m.e.grimm, m.f.a, ed.m.
cornell u., tc3
megrimm.net
____________________
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