[PD-dev] pow~ in Cyclone [was: Re: stripping down Pd-extended's default libs]

Frank Barknecht fbar at footils.org
Tue Feb 17 09:38:05 CET 2009

Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote:

> On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 07:26 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote:
> how can someone assume so? > no, that is so not true. i didn't even know,
> that zexy comes with their own version of [pack] and [unpack] until some
> weeks ago. and why the hell to they use the same names as internals?
> no, by no means i don't want to be forced to use the zexy version, just
> because some patches i use need zexy. 

You have been forced to do so for many years, you just haven't been told
about it until 0.42. I just now discovered that something is overwriting
my [wrap]. I don't know yet which library does that. It would be nice if
Pd could report the source library file together with the warning.

> > It's a difference between Pd >= 0.42 and Pd < 0.42.  I don't think,
> > overriding builtins ever worked with single-file externals, 
> that is what i am saying: this is introducing a _new_ incompatibility
> between pd-extended and pd vanilla.

Huh? The only "incompatibility" is the new *feature* of alias names for
overwritten objects. 0.42's [pow~] or [abs~] also are a new *feature*
implemented by popular demand. Loading libraries and the overwriting
itself hasn't changed at all AFAIK. If you don't use the alias names,
you don't have any problems. 

> > but maybe
> > I'm wrong. IOhannes? The overriding with lib-libraries works as before,
> > additionally you now can use the builtins with an alias. That may not be
> > the most pretty solution, but it doesn't break anything.
> i neeed to use an alias when i want to use vanilla objects? this is
> simply insane.

I agree with you that external libraries generally shouldn't overwrite
builtins. When using Cyclone for Max-importing it makes sense, though.

But IMO the aliasing is less insane than not being able to use the
builtins at all, as is the case if you load object-overwriting-libraries
like zexy or cyclone in any Pd version before 0.42, including

Note that here I use libraries in the "-lib"-loading
many-externals-in-one-file sense here, not in the sense where everything
(libs, singles, abstractions, "libdirs") is called a library and setting
a path is called "loading a library". 


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