[PD-dev] pow~ in Cyclone [was: Re: stripping down Pd-extended's default libs]

Roman Haefeli reduzierer at yahoo.de
Tue Feb 17 08:26:11 CET 2009

On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 07:26 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hallo,
> Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote:
> > from what i have understood, it is not cyclone's ability to replace
> > built-ins, but it is a so called new feature of pd 0.42. the same
> > happens also with zexy's [pack] and [unpack] and many others. 
> > 
> > why is that so cool? i personally find it _very much_ confusing, that
> > you cannot be sure anymore to use only pd-vanilla classes, when
> > libraries are loaded. 
> IIR that's not how the feature in 0.42 works. It does not affect each
> external and also does not affect single-file externals. The only
> object classes affected are those, that override Pd builtins. If you
> load zexy and if zexy overrides [pack], then its sensible to assume,
> that you want to use zexy's [pack]. 

how can someone assume so? no, that is so not true. i didn't even know,
that zexy comes with their own version of [pack] and [unpack] until some
weeks ago. and why the hell to they use the same names as internals?
no, by no means i don't want to be forced to use the zexy version, just
because some patches i use need zexy. 

i really doesn't understand: when something doesn't provide the _exact_
same feature set, why does it steal the name?

> Same with some versions of pow~, wrap, abs~, ...
> If you use Cyclone in its single externals files version, the version of
> [pow~] that you get is the one from 0.42. 
> "Fixing" this would involve changing Cyclone and Zexy. 
> > then again, as you say, this new features introduces _another_
> > difference between pd-extended and vanilla: overriding internal classes
> > works only with libs and not with single-class-per-file collections.
> It's a difference between Pd >= 0.42 and Pd < 0.42.  I don't think,
> overriding builtins ever worked with single-file externals, 

that is what i am saying: this is introducing a _new_ incompatibility
between pd-extended and pd vanilla.

> but maybe
> I'm wrong. IOhannes? The overriding with lib-libraries works as before,
> additionally you now can use the builtins with an alias. That may not be
> the most pretty solution, but it doesn't break anything.

i neeed to use an alias when i want to use vanilla objects? this is
simply insane.


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