[PD-dev] Removing [output~]? (was [clone] with subpatches)

[Miller Puckette]

Oh, I misunderstood the last mail.  I do think the panel can just be
a slider+number box (or just a number box) plus a "mute" button that
toggles mute on and off.  (That could be a graphical toggle instead
of a bang if people find that more intuitive - I hadn't thought of that).

By the way, I'm coming around to your idea just to 'detect' when a second
audio inlet is disconnected and switch the object into mono mode in that
case - that's pretty smart :)

cheers
Miller

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 01:49:24PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> I use it all the time as well, but I'm not sure what you mean. You say you
> want the bang button instead of a toggle? You say you want me to keep the
> bang message into it to it changes the state of the toggle?
> 
> What I said is that I doubt people were using external controls via
> messages into the object to make me bother and keep the bang message.
> 
> what do you say?
> 
> cheers
> 
> Em sex., 20 de jan. de 2023 às 13:46, Miller Puckette <msp at ucsd.edu>
> escreveu:
> 
> > Actually, personally I use the "mute" button all the time.  Perhaps some
> > people
> > don't need it, but me, I often have 3 or 4 different output~ objects in
> > a patch and want to turn them on and off selectively.  (I also see
> > sound engineers doing this all the time).
> >
> > cheers
> > Miller
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 01:41:12PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > > So, I talked to MAX in private, he mentioned he'd expect a mute message
> > as
> > > in "mute 0" / "mute 1". That makes sense. I was keeping the bang button
> > to
> > > alter the state for backwards compatibility since the last one had a bang
> > > instead, but maybe I shouldn't bother with it as I doubt people were
> > using
> > > any external controls at all with this, as I also think people will not
> > use
> > > it much in the future.  So I changed the mute message and removed the
> > bang
> > > for the sake of simplicity and to make it less "feature-creep" :)
> > >
> > > Find new version attached with a help file (see screenshot below as
> > well).
> > > If no other objection is made I can upload this to my documentation
> > branch
> > > soon.
> > >
> > >
> > > [image: Screen Shot 2023-01-20 at 13.40.19.png]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Em sex., 20 de jan. de 2023 às 07:26, Max <abonnements at revolwear.com>
> > > escreveu:
> > >
> > > > Feature-creep!
> > > > :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 20.01.23 01:08, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > > > > Ok, here's a newly design [output~] abstraction. If there's only a
> > mono
> > > > > input on the left inlet (and nothing on the right inlet), the mono
> > > > > signal gets distributed to both outputs. That's something new!
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a slider now and the control is now a quartic function
> > instead of
> > > > > db as discussed. As originally, whenever we move the slider, the
> > > > > abstraction sends a 'pd dsp 1' message to turn the audio on in the
> > case
> > > > > it was off.
> > > > >
> > > > > I kept the same control messages as the current [output~] object, a
> > bang
> > > > > message is still there to mute/unmute. A 'level' message is also
> > still
> > > > > there to control the volume from an external control (but the input
> > > > > range is now from 0 to 1 and sets the slider).
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, I decided to propose a whole new approach for the mute logic. It
> > > > > seems much more reasonable and simpler to just use a toggle button
> > that
> > > > > visually shows us when it is muted or not. The patch is much simpler
> > > > > this way and there's no complicated logic to store the slider value,
> > set
> > > > > it to zero when muted and restore to the previous value when unmuted.
> > > > > The slider keeps at the same position when muted, and if you move the
> > > > > slider when muted, no sound is output because... well.. the mute
> > toggle
> > > > > is still on :)
> > > > >
> > > > > I then added two more messages for external control 'mute' and
> > 'unmute'.
> > > > >
> > > > > This seems simple, better and is more versatile and seems like a good
> > > > > candidate for a new Vanilla [output~] abstraction that is really
> > useful
> > > > > for day to day usage. See screenshot below and find the patch
> > attached.
> > > > > Please give me feedback to see if I'm going in the right direction.
> > If
> > > > > it is ok I will make a PR and update the documentation.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Screen Shot 2023-01-19 at 21.07.18.png
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers~
> > > > >
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