[PD] pd-gui wishlist

Joschi joschi at eds.org
Tue Apr 23 19:36:36 CEST 2002

As far as I can tell, PD and Tcl/Tk are married, and will be for the
forseeable future.  If you tried to replace tcl/tk with java or
something, you would have replace all of the gui externs as well.  I
used to feel that tcl/tk was icky and had to go, but in actually
learning it, I stopped caring.  Any programmer who would be able to add
segmentation to the connectors in a java based gui can learn to use
tcl/tk well enough in a few afternoons, it really isnt that
complicated.  Further, if you feel really die hard about your opinion
that Java is the way, why are you not using jMax?  It'd gui is
"prettier" and written in Java right now.  

On Tue, 2002-04-23 at 10:19, joge . wrote:
> its not really about decorations it about helpful graphical content .  useless decorations are not what java would be used for .  in my mind , java is a nice programming language in the same vien of pd , simple to program [alot simpler then tcl/tk] and its object oriented which resembles pd's paradigm of objects.  then again i have never worked with tcl/tk to any extent but from what i see it looks very mangaled and not very "friendly" .  this is what i mean by helpful graphical content : a language like python or java , is graphically helpful when you see the text its some what more intuitive for a person who has programmed in c/c++ to follow the code and then to take there hand at modifing it as they see fit .
> Also i think the tcl/tk windowing graphics can be a bit *raw* for new comers to pd to get into it right off the bat . i know lots of peoplt who buy apple computers to run Max/MSP [well that and the documentation helps too] .  i mean most people that use a program like pd are not hardcore programmers , they are artists that have a strong background in computers and wish to do some cool/interesting/playful project with computers that perhaps they couldnt do any other way .
> any how , i would like to hear more about what you and every one else thinks about tcl/tk and why its the way to go for pd's gui editor .  i personally would like to try my hand at implementing a java alternative for pd with extensive class stuctures that can be easily documented [javadoc] , maintained and modified by any one with experience in OO programming . 
> joge .
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Yves Degoyon 
>   To: pd-list at iem.kug.ac.at 
>   Cc: 'Pure Data' 
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:47 AM
>   Subject: Re: [PD] pd-gui wishlist
>   Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hi,mark hat gesagt: // mark wrote:
> I know its boring but the main thing I would like from the GUI is for it to look nicer - Jmax despite not doing half the things I want it to looks fantastic and is nice to use. 
> Yes, but as it's wishing time ;) I would also like the PD gui to befaster. Some patches, especially those with lots of number boxes, runa lot faster when pd is started with -noguiciao,
>   speaking of light-speed interfaces, java is certainly  not the way.
>   and if you like a lot of decorations ( which i don't,
>   i'd rather a pure interface ), you're not going in that way neither.
>   about decorations, Tcl/Tk is not a limitation for that,
>   latest relesases includes transparency, it doesn't do 
>   3D-accelerated graohics, ok .... but do we use it outside of Gem ? ? ?
>   about tool tips poping up, i hope it was only meant for edition mode,
>   in performance mode, it would be an impediment.
>   you might be surprised i dislike useless decorations, knowing
>   i did some graphical externs, but heavy graphic operations
>   for these objects are launched at patch loading time 
>   or in the background.
>   i'm not sure it's useful to update numbers or sliders each 1/1000 second.
>   yvotchka.  
>   Unauthorized pd

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