[PD] PDDP meeting?
Hans-Christoph Steiner
hans at eds.org
Tue Apr 25 18:07:20 CEST 2006
On Apr 23, 2006, at 7:14 PM, adam wrote:
>
> ..on Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 08:07:22PM +0200, Hans-Christoph Steiner
> wrote:
>>
>> Installation manuals are the only thing that I can see that makes
>> sense with Pd.
>
>
> really? what about for exmplaining externals that the user hasnt
> installed yet
I am not opposed to things like PDB or ways of searching for existing
objects. But if you are going to learn the object, functional
examples work best. But a manual would not be a good way to search
for objects.
> (etc) and what about graphic design, i dont think its such a good
> idea to think
> design isnt important when assiting readability etc...i think there
> are a lot of cases for a manual :)
Yes, Pd could use some work on layout. But with the [comment] and
canvas objects, you can do quite a bit. I'd prefer to improve Pd's
layout that to make a separate manual.
.hc
>
> adam
>
>
>
> So this manual is a nice start. But it would be nice
>> to have that documentation integrated into puredata.org rather than
>> somewhere else.
>
>
>
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2006, at 12:49 PM, adam wrote:
>>
>>> isnt it possible to do both (a book man and a patch man)? they can
>>> easily fit together and trade content...
>>>
>>> if anyone is interested in a traditional manual i have started a
>>> floss manual repository for collaborative dev of manuals. its not
>>> 'public' yet as i want to get
>>> some more manuals in there but its fully functional...
>>>
>>> the url is:
>>> http://www.flossmanuals.net
>>>
>>> an example of a 'finished' manual is the MuSE manual :
>>> http://www.flossmanuals.net/muse
>>>
>>> and the PD manual is coming along, i would like to get it to the
>>> level of the MuSE manual soon, but i need to wrap it up in a nice
>>> skin and put a good index to
>>> it...you can for the meantime see the entire thing in one page:
>>> http://www.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/All?skin=basic
>>>
>>> the repository allows for output in many formats: PDF (autoindexed,
>>> linked etc), tar, zip, chaptered html, printable html, and single
>>> page html.
>>>
>>> there is also a shared image repository that can be contributed to
>>> and images can be edited,resized, etc through the default editor
>>>
>>> if anyone is interested i would like to suggest a collab manual
>>> development utilising this system alongside the (very nice) idea of
>>> a manual made of PD patches
>>>
>>>
>>> adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ..on Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 12:40:28PM -0500, David Powers wrote:
>>>> I STRONGLY disagree with having a manual that is ONLY pd patches
>>>> -- unless
>>>> those patches are translated into PDF or HTML also.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I always print important reference
>>>> material out
>>>> onto notebooks, and I often do programming with paper and pencil.
>>>> So, I'd
>>>> first of all worry that a pd patch might require interactivity to
>>>> fully
>>>> understand what is happening. So, at a minimum, all patches should
>>>> include
>>>> enough text to understand the information, even if the patch isn't
>>>> running.
>>>>
>>>> Also, sometimes I reference things on work computers where I don't
>>>> have pd.
>>>> And, on Windows, many things still crash pd. There is nothing more
>>>> annoying
>>>> than being in the middle of studying things and suddenly having
>>>> everything
>>>> shut down and having to load it all up again.
>>>>
>>>> So, I feel that a "manual" worthy of the name should allow one to
>>>> access the
>>>> information, regardless of having pd running or not. Perhaps the
>>>> patches
>>>> could just be converted to PDF, and somehow a page index created.
>>>>
>>>> I LIKE "book learning", I often learn best that way--I have made
>>>> many good
>>>> pd patches and python programs riding the bus or train many times.
>>>> In fact,
>>>> I find that when I plan with pen and paper, my pd patches come out
>>>> much
>>>> better, and it's very helpful to have traditional reference
>>>> materials when
>>>> working in this way. Does everyone really have a problem with
>>>> making a
>>>> traditional manual for pd?
>>>>
>>>> ~David
>>>>
>>>> On 4/19/06, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at eds.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is Adam Hyde on the list? I think its great for anyone to join,
>>>>> seriously, the more the merrier. Already, the intro that I have
>>>>> been
>>>>> assembling is drawing on the work of 10 or so people.
>>>>>
>>>>> We discussed the idea of a manual a fair amount in the PDDP
>>>>> meetings. I think most/all of us agreed that we want to try to
>>>>> make
>>>>> a Pd manual that is completely made up of Pd patches. The
>>>>> point is
>>>>> to highlight learning thru example for every single step.
>>>>> Having a
>>>>> separate manual seems to highlight the book learning style more.
>>>>> Yes, this will mean a lot of patches. I already have 60-ish
>>>>> for the
>>>>> intro.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I also just made a pager object which allows you to easily
>>>>> navigate the pages like a manual. Its included in the most recent
>>>>> test releases:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Go to Help->Browser... then manuals/intro and load 0-pager.pd I
>>>>> tested it on Windows and Mac OS X.
>>>>>
>>>>> .hc
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 19, 2006, at 5:07 PM, derek holzer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey HC and the gang,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam Hyde has been working on a PDF/HTML manual for getting PD up
>>>>>> and running. I've talked with him a bit about how beneficial
>>>>>> such a
>>>>>> thing is versus a set of patches like the ones which have been
>>>>>> contributed here. But you might want to have a look at it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.flossmanuals.net/edit
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I may be meeting with him soon about where it could go, and I'm
>>>>>> sure he's open for other suggestions as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark Polishook wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Two comments: 1. the patches are very good at identifying core
>>>>>>> concepts and explaining them. 2. But the hard thing about
>>>>>>> tutorial
>>>>>>> writing is it's difficult to show how those small concepts
>>>>>>> relate
>>>>>>> to larger artistic concerns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree on both fronts. The main issue with PD is that people use
>>>>>> it for so many different things that demonstrating "artistic
>>>>>> concerns" would be pretty limited to what the author happens
>>>>>> to be
>>>>>> doing with PD. All the same, I do find that there is a serious
>>>>>> lack
>>>>>> of "demo" patches, or something like a "user library" that noobs
>>>>>> could have a look at for inspiration. Simple and not so simple
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> usable tools, along the same lines as the User Library in
>>>>>> Reaktor,
>>>>>> or maybe even the Pluggo patches from Cycling74 (except you can't
>>>>>> open those up, can you???). I tried to make something like that
>>>>>> with ParticleChamber, and I know that other stuff has come up on
>>>>>> the list when people ask about synth collections and the like.
>>>>>> Might be good to try to collect these kinds of abstractions
>>>>>> together into a library of sorts (a la RRRAD).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> best,
>>>>>> derek
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl
>>>>>> ---Oblique Strategy # 76:
>>>>>> "Give the game away"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>> __
>>>>> ____
>>>>> ____
>>>>>
>>>>> As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should
>>>>> be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of
>>>>> ours;
>>>>> and this we should do freely and generously.
>>>>> - Benjamin
>>>>> Franklin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Adam Hyde
>>> ~/.nl
>>>
>>> selected projects
>>> http://www.xs4all.nl/~adam
>>>
>>> the streaming suitcase
>>> http://www.streamingsuitcase.com
>>>
>>> r a d i o q u a l i a
>>> http://www.radioqualia.net
>>>
>>> Free as in 'media'
>>> email : adam at xs4all.nl
>>> mobile : + 31 6 186 75 356 (Netherlands mobile)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/
>>> listinfo/pd-list
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> ___
>> ____
>>
>> ?El pueblo unido jam?s ser? vencido!
>>
>>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Adam Hyde
> ~/.nl
>
> selected projects
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~adam
>
> the streaming suitcase
> http://www.streamingsuitcase.com
>
> r a d i o q u a l i a
> http://www.radioqualia.net
>
> Free as in 'media'
> email : adam at xs4all.nl
> mobile : + 31 6 186 75 356 (Netherlands mobile)
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