[PD] elitism, software and academia (was GEM FTGL Sadness)

[jared]

> All of the work done (out of love, not money) by the pd community
should
> be applauded.  With that said, there is a sense of elitism.

how does this perceived elitism affect your ability to make music? to
learn about digitial synthesis? 

	None.  I'm not saying that it affects productivity.  I'm just
saying 	that it exists.

is it an excuse to avoid the work required?

	No.  Not at all.  That's why I'm here.  I'm plugging away with
PD.  

i've seen lots of beginner questions answered here- sometimes with
sarcasm, but mostly with patience [and sometimes with both].

	I completely agree.  Remember, I'm not singling out the PD
community, 	which I am a part of.  My comment encompassed the whole
of the 'audio 	software' community.

> I think academia needs to recognize that there are many composers who
> use computers as a means to an end; who make music with the AID of
> computers; not to make music WITH computers.

this seems like an arbitrary line you are drawing. are you talking
about people who use presets as opposed to people who can generate
their own 'presets'?

	I'm not talking about 'presets' at all. I didn't once mention
'presets'.  I'm just saying that there is a difference between
composers who are also programmers, and composers who aren't
programmers yet want to learn to use the technology as an aid to the
compositional process.  When I say technology here, I'm talking about
Logic, Sibelius, Melodyne and shared PD/Csound etc. instruments.  I'm
talking about composers learning how to USE NOT BUILD shared PD/Csound
etc instruments to achieve the sound they want.  I'm talking about a
more compositional approach to music technology. 

and why is academia some kind of measuring stick? in my experience,
academia is not the ivory tower you seem to be implying- it is filled
with people, some more creative, some less creative, some as greedy as
any industrialist you could find in the private sector.

	Academia shouldn't be the measuring stick.  God knows that in
the 	'free thinking' academic atmosphere, dogma runs rampant.  [Cue
violin 	here] The reason I mentioned it is because it is relevant to my
current situation, as I am looking for a curriculum that fits my
needs. And I don't want to dig myself into debt for a program that
I don't think I'll get the most out of.   

> There is still a rigid
> line that separates the composer and the programmer.

the rigidity is mostly in your mind. composing is very much like
programming. instead of working in perl, beethoven worked with staff
paper [think punch cards]. how is a repeat sign in a score different
than a 'while' loop? how is a fugal theme different than a variable
that gets subjected to a certain kind of treatment?

	I think the difference is that a composer, in the classical
sense, can 	simply write down a rest on the staff.  He doesn't need
to debug or 	recompile. He doesn't need to connect any outs.  He just
writes the 	the music.  

> What about today's composers who are
> interested in classical compositional techniques and forms, but who
are,
> at heart, electronic music composers and want to apply these classical
> techniques and forms to their electronic compositions with the AID of
> technology, yet have no interest in programming?

they are out of luck.

	That is my point :-)

what about someone who wants to perform bach's wtc and has no interest
in learning the piano?

	That is not my point :-)  Learning to play?  Or learning to
build?

also, as an aside, forget about classical forms: what do *you* have to
say? [although if you want make a career out of being an anachronism,
maybe the academies of the world will support you]

	I admitted that it was a personal rant.  I've made not absolute
statements here.  Only personal opinion.  My point was to step away
from the black and white of it all.  If I were a beauty pageant
contestant my wish would be to rid the world of anachronism or
elitism...... 

	:-)