[PD] "new wrap incompatible object" error
Hans-Christoph Steiner
hans at at.or.at
Tue Aug 17 04:51:31 CEST 2010
On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:23 PM, Claude Heiland-Allen wrote:
> On 17/08/10 01:38, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2010, at 8:30 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>>
>>>> Personally, its much more annoying if you have used [wrap] in your
>>>> patch, then your patch mysteriously breaks. Hence the error. I
>>>> could
>>>> be worded better, so I'm updating it.
>>>
>>> can you make it a warn() instead, so that people can use "Find Last
>>> Error" for things that are really Errors ? That's especially because
>>> "Find Last Error" can really find only the Last one.
>>
>>
>> a broken wrap or pow~ is really an error in my opinion.
>
> The timeline is important here, because I know that I (and possibly
> others) have a tendency to remember things in a way that justifies
> my own current viewpoint:
>
> 0. puredata had [wrap~] but not [wrap]
> 1. [zexy/wrap] was implemented
> 2. pd-extended imports -lib zexy unqualified
> 3. some people using pd-extended use [wrap] (from zexy)
> 4a. puredata implemented [wrap] that isn't quite the same
> 4b. puredata implemented "externals can override
> internals" (+warnings)
> 4c. pd-extended removed "externals can override internals"
> 5. some people write patches using [wrap] (from puredata)
> 6. pd-extended changes [wrap] to emit warnings
> 7a. puredata [wrap] users get upset about the warnings from pd-
> extended
> 7b. pd-extended [wrap] users get upset about the warnings from
> puredata
>
> The point here is that, the puredata users in 5 who want to make
> patches with [wrap] work with both puredata and pd-extended without
> warnings/error message, now have NO options and the suggested
> solution from pd-extended BREAKS puredata:
>
> A. using plain [wrap], puredata works fine and pd-extended complains
> B. using -lib zexy [wrap], puredata complains and pd-extended
> complains
> C. using -lib zexy [zexy/wrap], puredata FAILS*, pd-extended works
> fine
>
> So, given that C is not an option for most puredata users, pd-
> extended should certainly not be recommending this as the way to fix
> patches, at least not unconditionally (afaik in some modes -lib zexy
> [wrap] behaves the same as puredata [wrap], but it can do more?)
>
> Other solutions might be:
> I. allow externals to override internals, like puredata
> II. extend pd-extended's [wrap] to behave just like -lib zexy [wrap]
> when zexy is loaded/imported
> III. extend puredata's [wrap] to behave just like -lib zexy [wrap]
> and then port the changes to pd-extended
>
> --[[-- opinion
>
> The pd-extended users in 3 who want to make patches with [wrap] work
> with both puredata and pd-extended should have known that they were
> using an extension, but sadly pd-extended's decision to load
> everything automatically to "make life easier for users" caused this
> mess in the first place, in the end making life harder for everybody.
>
> The incompatible suggestion smacks of pd-embrace-and-extend...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace_and_extend
>
> --]]-- opinion
>
>
> (*) with puredata and pd-zexy from Ubuntu Lucid 'universe':
> $ pd -stderr -verbose -lib zexy
> Pd version 0.42-5
> compiled 20:01:18 Jan 5 2010
> [snip]
> tried ./zexy.l_ia64 and failed
> tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy.l_ia64 and failed
> tried ./zexy.pd_linux and failed
> tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy.pd_linux and succeeded
> warning: class 'wrap' overwritten; old one renamed 'wrap_aliased'
> warning: class 'abs~' overwritten; old one renamed 'abs~_aliased'
>
> ©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©
> © the zexy external 2.1 ©
> © (l) forum::für::umläute ©
> © compiled: May 30 2008 ©
> © send me a 'help' message ©
> ©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©
>
> tried /home/claude/zexy/wrap.l_ia64 and failed
> tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/wrap.l_ia64 and failed
> tried /home/claude/zexy/wrap.pd_linux and failed
> tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/wrap.pd_linux and failed
> tried /home/claude/zexy/wrap/wrap.l_ia64 and failed
> tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/wrap/wrap.l_ia64 and failed
> tried /home/claude/zexy/wrap/wrap.pd_linux and failed
> tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/wrap/wrap.pd_linux and failed
> tried /home/claude/zexy/wrap.pd and failed
> tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/wrap.pd and failed
> tried /home/claude/zexy/wrap.pat and failed
> tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/wrap.pat and failed
> zexy/wrap
> ... couldn't create
>
>
> I hope this all makes sense, and that a more appropriate solution
> can be reached before the final release version of Pd-extended-0.42.
Patches welcome. At this point I'm satisified with keeping an error
message for the 0.42 release, then downgrading it to a warning in 0.43
.hc
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