[PD] Font weirdness with 0.43test

Hans-Christoph Steiner hans at at.or.at
Wed Aug 25 22:58:17 CEST 2010


Which wish are you using?

$ wish
% info patchlevel
8.5.8

.hc

On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 22:30 +0200, cyrille henry wrote:
> hello,
> 
> withubuntu 10.04
> 
> pd -noprefs
> -> the message box are higher than the text
> pd -noprefs -font-face "andale mono" solve the problem
> 
> so, andale mono is here, but not used...
> 
> 
> 
> here is the result of your script.
> 
> linespace	ascent		descent		font name
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 13		11		2		msbm10
> 13		11		2		webdings
> 13		11		2		fixed
> 18		15		3		lucidatypewriter
> 19		14		5		courier 10 pitch
> 13		11		2		cmsy10
> 21		17		4		andale mono
> 14		11		3		clean
> 17		13		4		terminal
> 16		14		2		gothic
> 13		11		2		cmr10
> 13		11		2		wenquanyi zenhei
> 16		14		2		song ti
> 37		15		22		open look cursor
> 13		11		2		cmex10
> 16		14		2		mincho
> 13		11		2		msam10
> 18		14		4		courier
> 13		11		2		inconsolata
> 16		16		0		nil
> 13		11		2		cmmi10
> 16		14		2		fangsong ti
> 20		16		4		dotum
> 28		17		11		courier new
> 18		14		4		nimbus mono l
> 20		16		4		batang
> 13		11		2		wasy10
> 
> Cyrille
> 
> Le 25/08/2010 21:39, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
> >
> > I figured out the cause.  The problem is caused by the font used being
> > different than the font that fits into the standardized boxes.  If you
> > have the margin problem or the offset clicking problem then your Tcl/Tk
> > is not used "DejaVu Sans Mono" or "Andale Mono", the two fonts I have
> > found that fit into the standard box size.
> >
> > Other fonts have different ratios of height to width, and when Pd uses a
> > different font, it tries to size it larger to fit the DejaVu Sans Mono.
> > Also Tcl/Tk 8.4 does a bad job of font handling on GNU/Linux/X11.  8.5
> > is better but different than 8.4.
> >
> > The DejaVu fonts are the standard fonts for GNOME and are included in
> > all major distros, so those seem the natural font to standardize on.
> > Also, DejaVu Sans Mono looks pretty good.
> >
> > To get an idea, run the attached script with your wish.  It would be
> > quite useful if people would post the results of that script here so we
> > can see what fonts are commonly available.
> >
> > .hc
> >
> > On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 11:49 -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
> >> By 'margin' I meant that 'the box is larger than the text inside it so there's
> >> a bunch of empty space inside it'... if you don't see that you won't have the
> >> problem I'm having :)
> >>
> >> M
> >>
> >> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 02:45:12PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Ok, testing now... as for having the boxes with a standardized size,
> >>> that's been the case with Pd-extended 0.40 and is also the case with
> >>> 0.43 as of now.  I'm not sure if I understand your idea about the margin
> >>> tho, but an outline in edit mode sounds like a good idea.
> >>>
> >>> .hc
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 11:09 -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
> >>>> Sure...  here:
> >>>>
> >>>> #N canvas 359 131 405 427 10;
> >>>> #X msg 98 55 \; line 1 \; line 2 \; line 3 \; line 4 \; line 5 \; line
> >>>> 6 \; line 7 \; line 8 \; line 9 \; line 10 \; line 11 \; line 12 \;
> >>>> line 13 \; line 14 \; line 15 \; line 16 \; line 17 \; line 18 \; line
> >>>> 19 \; line 20;
> >>>>
> >>>> On my machine the text box is several (20?) pixels too tall and to select
> >>>> the bottom line of text you have to click way below it.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't see how the thing can be made truly cross-platform unless there's
> >>>> a way to get text to have a determined size (both vertical and horizontal)
> >>>> and that seems to be impossible to get to work cross-platform.
> >>>>
> >>>> The only solution I can think of for getting boxes to have consistent sizes is
> >>>> to use Mathieu's suggestion and make the box have a standardized size, simply
> >>>> adding margin when the text font doesn't actually fill it.  (There's have to
> >>>> be an outline drawn around comments when the patch is unlocked too.)
> >>>>
> >>>> cheers
> >>>> Miller
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:15:11PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think the real solution to this would be one step deeper.  If Pd
> >>>>> used Tcl to handle the GUI interaction, then we could use the Tk
> >>>>> scaling feature, which is what Tk does to handle cross-platform
> >>>>> differences in font rendering.  Pd could then store the Tk scaling
> >>>>> number in the patch, and use it to scale internal copies of pixel
> >>>>> values, when necessary. Then we could have the best of both worlds.
> >>>>> This would also give us the ability to zoom/scale patches for free.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is not as hard as it might seem, I believe DesireData has this
> >>>>> working.  I think this would also be quite clean and actually
> >>>>> simplify Pd's code rather than adding more complexity by tracking
> >>>>> both when fonts should fit to the box size and when the box size
> >>>>> should fit to the font.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'll take a look at the big text block clicking issue now.  Do you
> >>>>> have an example patch?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> .hc
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Aug 24, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Long as there's a way to fix a problem I'm having:  in message
> >>>>>> boxes with
> >>>>>> many lines of text, you can easily click on one character and
> >>>>>> select one above
> >>>>>> it... it gets very confusing.  (Fedora 13 out-of-box).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm guessing that in the current version the GUI simply tells Pd
> >>>>>> what size
> >>>>>> the font ought to have had instead of the genuine one.  Pd could
> >>>>>> easily
> >>>>>> expand the box to the ought-to size (at least optionally for those
> >>>>>> wishing
> >>>>>> to make cross-platform patches) but should know about the text's
> >>>>>> actual size
> >>>>>> anyway.  To be continued...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> cheers
> >>>>>> Miller
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 01:21:08AM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Aug 23, 2010, at 7:01 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 01:39:08PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> BTW I've been using Pd-Extended's Linux/OSX default font
> >>>>>>>>> size as the
> >>>>>>>>> basis for all my patches for making my last 400 patches or so.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I've used Pd vanilla for all my patches so far, with a "10"
> >>>>>>>> font-size,
> >>>>>>>> whatever that is in pixels. I know, that Pd-extended uses some
> >>>>>>>> different
> >>>>>>>> layout for several years now, which makes patches look wrong
> >>>>>>>> when you
> >>>>>>>> load them in Pd vanilla and the other way around. I have not much
> >>>>>>>> interest to discuss the differences between vanilla and Pd-x,
> >>>>>>>> as I am
> >>>>>>>> hoping the two to unify again with the gui-rewrite. So I'm
> >>>>>>>> willing to
> >>>>>>>> change my preferences to whatever will be the new vanilla, but I'd
> >>>>>>>> prefer to not do again that with every release or with every new
> >>>>>>>> Courier-like font that pops up on the Internets' Top 10 console font
> >>>>>>>> lists and is so much better than the previous ones.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Unless Miller changes it in the future, Pd 0.43 should have the same
> >>>>>>> boxes sizes that Pd-extended has had for a couple versions.  That
> >>>>>>> was one of my goals with the GUI rewrite.  Its a bug if that's not
> >>>>>>> the case.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> .hc
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The arc of history bends towards justice.     - Dr. Martin Luther
> >>>>>>> King, Jr.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> >>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->  http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you
> >>>>> can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->  http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list





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