[PD] Font weirdness with 0.43test

cyrille henry ch at chnry.net
Wed Aug 25 23:50:27 CEST 2010


8.4.19
c

Le 25/08/2010 22:58, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
>
> Which wish are you using?
>
> $ wish
> % info patchlevel
> 8.5.8
>
> .hc
>
> On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 22:30 +0200, cyrille henry wrote:
>> hello,
>>
>> withubuntu 10.04
>>
>> pd -noprefs
>> ->  the message box are higher than the text
>> pd -noprefs -font-face "andale mono" solve the problem
>>
>> so, andale mono is here, but not used...
>>
>>
>>
>> here is the result of your script.
>>
>> linespace	ascent		descent		font name
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> 13		11		2		msbm10
>> 13		11		2		webdings
>> 13		11		2		fixed
>> 18		15		3		lucidatypewriter
>> 19		14		5		courier 10 pitch
>> 13		11		2		cmsy10
>> 21		17		4		andale mono
>> 14		11		3		clean
>> 17		13		4		terminal
>> 16		14		2		gothic
>> 13		11		2		cmr10
>> 13		11		2		wenquanyi zenhei
>> 16		14		2		song ti
>> 37		15		22		open look cursor
>> 13		11		2		cmex10
>> 16		14		2		mincho
>> 13		11		2		msam10
>> 18		14		4		courier
>> 13		11		2		inconsolata
>> 16		16		0		nil
>> 13		11		2		cmmi10
>> 16		14		2		fangsong ti
>> 20		16		4		dotum
>> 28		17		11		courier new
>> 18		14		4		nimbus mono l
>> 20		16		4		batang
>> 13		11		2		wasy10
>>
>> Cyrille
>>
>> Le 25/08/2010 21:39, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
>>>
>>> I figured out the cause.  The problem is caused by the font used being
>>> different than the font that fits into the standardized boxes.  If you
>>> have the margin problem or the offset clicking problem then your Tcl/Tk
>>> is not used "DejaVu Sans Mono" or "Andale Mono", the two fonts I have
>>> found that fit into the standard box size.
>>>
>>> Other fonts have different ratios of height to width, and when Pd uses a
>>> different font, it tries to size it larger to fit the DejaVu Sans Mono.
>>> Also Tcl/Tk 8.4 does a bad job of font handling on GNU/Linux/X11.  8.5
>>> is better but different than 8.4.
>>>
>>> The DejaVu fonts are the standard fonts for GNOME and are included in
>>> all major distros, so those seem the natural font to standardize on.
>>> Also, DejaVu Sans Mono looks pretty good.
>>>
>>> To get an idea, run the attached script with your wish.  It would be
>>> quite useful if people would post the results of that script here so we
>>> can see what fonts are commonly available.
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>> On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 11:49 -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>> By 'margin' I meant that 'the box is larger than the text inside it so there's
>>>> a bunch of empty space inside it'... if you don't see that you won't have the
>>>> problem I'm having :)
>>>>
>>>> M
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 02:45:12PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, testing now... as for having the boxes with a standardized size,
>>>>> that's been the case with Pd-extended 0.40 and is also the case with
>>>>> 0.43 as of now.  I'm not sure if I understand your idea about the margin
>>>>> tho, but an outline in edit mode sounds like a good idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> .hc
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 11:09 -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>>>> Sure...  here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> #N canvas 359 131 405 427 10;
>>>>>> #X msg 98 55 \; line 1 \; line 2 \; line 3 \; line 4 \; line 5 \; line
>>>>>> 6 \; line 7 \; line 8 \; line 9 \; line 10 \; line 11 \; line 12 \;
>>>>>> line 13 \; line 14 \; line 15 \; line 16 \; line 17 \; line 18 \; line
>>>>>> 19 \; line 20;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On my machine the text box is several (20?) pixels too tall and to select
>>>>>> the bottom line of text you have to click way below it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't see how the thing can be made truly cross-platform unless there's
>>>>>> a way to get text to have a determined size (both vertical and horizontal)
>>>>>> and that seems to be impossible to get to work cross-platform.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only solution I can think of for getting boxes to have consistent sizes is
>>>>>> to use Mathieu's suggestion and make the box have a standardized size, simply
>>>>>> adding margin when the text font doesn't actually fill it.  (There's have to
>>>>>> be an outline drawn around comments when the patch is unlocked too.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>> Miller
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:15:11PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the real solution to this would be one step deeper.  If Pd
>>>>>>> used Tcl to handle the GUI interaction, then we could use the Tk
>>>>>>> scaling feature, which is what Tk does to handle cross-platform
>>>>>>> differences in font rendering.  Pd could then store the Tk scaling
>>>>>>> number in the patch, and use it to scale internal copies of pixel
>>>>>>> values, when necessary. Then we could have the best of both worlds.
>>>>>>> This would also give us the ability to zoom/scale patches for free.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is not as hard as it might seem, I believe DesireData has this
>>>>>>> working.  I think this would also be quite clean and actually
>>>>>>> simplify Pd's code rather than adding more complexity by tracking
>>>>>>> both when fonts should fit to the box size and when the box size
>>>>>>> should fit to the font.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll take a look at the big text block clicking issue now.  Do you
>>>>>>> have an example patch?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 24, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Long as there's a way to fix a problem I'm having:  in message
>>>>>>>> boxes with
>>>>>>>> many lines of text, you can easily click on one character and
>>>>>>>> select one above
>>>>>>>> it... it gets very confusing.  (Fedora 13 out-of-box).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm guessing that in the current version the GUI simply tells Pd
>>>>>>>> what size
>>>>>>>> the font ought to have had instead of the genuine one.  Pd could
>>>>>>>> easily
>>>>>>>> expand the box to the ought-to size (at least optionally for those
>>>>>>>> wishing
>>>>>>>> to make cross-platform patches) but should know about the text's
>>>>>>>> actual size
>>>>>>>> anyway.  To be continued...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>>> Miller
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 01:21:08AM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 23, 2010, at 7:01 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 01:39:08PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> BTW I've been using Pd-Extended's Linux/OSX default font
>>>>>>>>>>> size as the
>>>>>>>>>>> basis for all my patches for making my last 400 patches or so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've used Pd vanilla for all my patches so far, with a "10"
>>>>>>>>>> font-size,
>>>>>>>>>> whatever that is in pixels. I know, that Pd-extended uses some
>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>> layout for several years now, which makes patches look wrong
>>>>>>>>>> when you
>>>>>>>>>> load them in Pd vanilla and the other way around. I have not much
>>>>>>>>>> interest to discuss the differences between vanilla and Pd-x,
>>>>>>>>>> as I am
>>>>>>>>>> hoping the two to unify again with the gui-rewrite. So I'm
>>>>>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>>>>>> change my preferences to whatever will be the new vanilla, but I'd
>>>>>>>>>> prefer to not do again that with every release or with every new
>>>>>>>>>> Courier-like font that pops up on the Internets' Top 10 console font
>>>>>>>>>> lists and is so much better than the previous ones.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Unless Miller changes it in the future, Pd 0.43 should have the same
>>>>>>>>> boxes sizes that Pd-extended has had for a couple versions.  That
>>>>>>>>> was one of my goals with the GUI rewrite.  Its a bug if that's not
>>>>>>>>> the case.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The arc of history bends towards justice.     - Dr. Martin Luther
>>>>>>>>> King, Jr.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you
>>>>>>> can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
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