[PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

Fri Sep 28 02:01:06 CEST 2012

Hmm... I agree there's bad confusion between array and table in Pd
nomenclature.  I've tried to use "table" for a specifically floating-point
array, and "array" for the more general thing, but I think I've been
less than consistent (case in point, the "array" menu which creates what
I would call a "table".

One idea might be to use the name [tab] instead of [array], as in 
[tab size] - then [tabwrite] could get a synonym, [tab write], etc.

This is also mixed up in my trying to design a new [text] that would
replace and vastly extend [textfile] - so the three multifarious object
names would then be [list] [tab]/[array] and [text].  

The [table] object could be vastly extended: [table foo] would be equivalent
to [tab define foo] and you could say for instance, 
[tab define foo -struct my-struct -save -range 0 100]

(But, oops, that use of 'tab' would really be what I've been tring to use
'array' for in that it would presumably not be an array of floats.)

Too much to think about... that's why it takes so many years to get the
thing written...

cheers
Miller

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 06:19:40PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
> Sounds like a good complication :).  I think a general array toolkit
> would be very useful.  I'm not a fan of expanding the use of Tcl syntax
> in Pd tho (i.e. commands with subcommands).
> 
> Pd syntax is nice and simple with always the first word being the
> command and the rest being the args.  [list ...] is the only except to
> this that I can think of, and certainly the only exception included in
> pd-vanilla.
> 
> How about just naming them like [tabsize], [tabfoo], etc since there
> already are lots of [tab...] objects.  Or anything to minimize the
> confusion between the 'array', 'table', and 'tab*' objects.  Since there
> is [table] and [tab*], the menu item Put -> Array could be renamed to
> "Put visual table (array)" or something like that, then the word
> table/tab would be pretty consistent throughout Pd.
> 
> It may seem trivial, but I've spent a lot of time explaining why the
> objects for reading arrays all start with 'tab'.
> 
> .hc
> 
> On 09/27/2012 03:59 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> > Sorry to further complicate this -
> >
> > I'm now trying to design a multipurpose object "array" for pd
> > vanilla that would allow one to say [array size] and use "table" or
> > "data structure" arrays intercahngeably.
> >
> > I think though, that rather than marking arraysize as "obsolete" one
> > could simply note that it has an equivalent available in Pd vanilla -
> > that need carry no value judgement as to whether people should be using
> > vanilla or extended.
> >
> > cheers
> > M
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:23:35PM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
> >>> To: Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika at yahoo.com>
> >>> Cc: "pd-list at iem.at" <pd-list at iem.at>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:03 PM
> >>> Subject: arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> > If someone wants to write patches that work on vanilla anywhere,
> > >> then there is a point.
> > >>
> > >> _Everybody_ wants to write patches that work on vanilla everywhere.
> > >>
> > >> When we can't we try to figure out a course of action, but when we
> > >> can (without employing wild hacks) we should.
> > >>
> > >>
> > If people are already using Pd-extended or
> > >> Debian then I honestly don't see the point, arraysize is already
> > >> there, like many other externals.
> > >>
> > >> It's like you wrote above. People _do_ want patches to be as
> cross-platform
> > >> as possible. (Not if.)
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > For me, apt-get install pd-arraysize is far easier than trying to
> > >> remember that [expr] trick. And thankfully we can write externals,
> > >> so we can have choice. :-)
> > >>
> > >> If it were a wild hack I'd agree, but it's not. It is a standard
> operator for
> > >> [expr] that's been there for ages and is clearly documented.
> > >>
> > >> And who is this mythical user that looks to the Debian repositories
> > >> to figure out how to do something in a programming language?
> > >> (Hm, I'm not getting audio output, let's open up Synaptic and search
> > >> 20,000 mostly non-related packages for a solution...)
> > >>
> > >> -Jonathan
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > .hc
> >
> > On 09/27/2012 03:00 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> > >>>> That feature comes at the expense of compatibility, which
> > >>>> normally wouldn't be an issue _except_ that Pd
> > >>>> Vanilla already has the same functionality. So let's
> > >> encourage
> > >>>> use of the more compatible way using [expr], which is
> > >>>> clearly documented and supports the _exact_ same features
> > >>>> as arraysize.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -Jonathan
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> ________________________________
> > >>>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
> > >>>>> To: pd-list at iem.at
> > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:24 PM
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is
> > >> back!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> IMHO, arraysize is very useful because it has a memorable
> > >> name. "I
> > >>>>> need to find the size of an array... oh, [arraysize]".
> > >>>>
> > >>>> .hc
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On 09/27/2012 02:13 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> > >>>>>>> Please change the description for the package
> > >>>>>>> "pd-arraysize"
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> "This object is deprecated. Use [expr
> > >> size("array-name")]
> > >>>>>>> which works out of the box for Pd Extended, Pd
> > >> Vanilla,
> > >>>>>>> and Pd-l2ork."
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> -Jonathan
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>>>> From: IOhannes m zmoelnig <zmoelnig at iem.at>
> > >>>>>>>> To: pd-announce at iem.at
> > >>>>>>>> Cc:
> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:13 AM
> > >>>>>>>> Subject: [PD] [PD-announce]
> > >> apt.puredata.info is back!
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> last night hans and me finally setup a
> > >> replacement machine
> > >>>>> for
> > >>>>>>> apt.puredata.info[1], the ultimate source for
> > >> Pd-extended on
> > >>>>>>> Debian-based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Li
> > >>>>>>> fgmasdfnux/Mint,...)[2].
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> it is now hosted on the puredata.info
> > >> portal/mailinglist
> > >>>>> server,
> > >>>>>>> courtesy of iem.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> fgmasdf
> > >>>>>>> IOhannes
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> [1] http://apt.puredata.info/
> > >>>>>>> [2] http://puredata.info/docs/faq/debian
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>>> Pd-announce mailing list
> > >>>>>>>> Pd-announce at iem.at
> > >>>>>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> > >>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > >>>>>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> > >>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
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> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> > >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
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> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> 
> 

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