[PD] GUI overload
Miller Puckette
msp at ucsd.edu
Fri Dec 21 05:45:42 CET 2012
My worry is, I'm not sure if there's still a problem out there that the
|| -. + change fixes. Maybe I should try to cook up a formal definition
of what "working correctly" should consist of :)
M
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 09:30:40PM -0500, Ivica Bukvic wrote:
> Miller,
>
> Pd-l2ork has this fix since your original post on the PD list and I've yet
> to see any regressions. Many thanks for the suggestion. That said, I've yet
> to understand the logic behind it ;-).
>
> P.S. I also discovered quite a while ago that netreceive had a tendency to
> freeze GUI permanently, likely due to asynchronous message processing. I
> fixed this by enqueuing its messages and syncing them with the main PD
> loop. This has been a part of pd-l2ork for over a year without a single GUI
> freeze. That said, I did encounter situations where high traffic would
> freeze GUI temporarily and then resume (albeit running now behind the
> actual timeline as the GUI would simply resume as if nothing happened,
> rather than processing all calls that have piled up since the temporary
> freeze happened and for which time has already passed, e.g. having a timer
> in a score that freezes and then resumes from the moment it was stuck
> rather than adding seconds lost since such calls should've been enqueued
> while the freeze was in effect). This may have been in part due to atom
> cpus being taxed to their very limits. I've yet to see whether your
> proposed fix resolves the lingering issue.
>
> HTH
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ico
> On Dec 20, 2012 7:02 PM, "Miller Puckette" <msp at ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> > OK... I've pushed a change that seems to have fixed the
> > arrays-atop-updating
> > problem (at lest in the Brane example). Not sure if I should also commit
> > the
> > return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui()) ---> + change
> > as well (somehow I think it should never be necessary to do that but I'm
> > realizing how little I understand Pd's scheduler.)
> >
> > cheers
> > M
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 12:17:35PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> > >
> > > It seems that there are a number of issues here:
> > >
> > > * GUI objects sending every update, regardless of change (fixed)
> > >
> > > * arrays stop updating on Mac OS X (pinpointed) I just tested this on
> > Windows, and it looks like only Mac OS X is affected
> > >
> > > * all GUI activity stopping related to:
> > > return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui())
> > >
> > >
> > > * GUI objects sending updates to GUI as fast as they receive them even
> > tho the screen will never update faster than every ~10ms.
> > >
> > > * some GUI updates send lots of raw Tcl code to be parsed, compiled, and
> > run in realtime
> > >
> > > .hc
> > >
> > > On Dec 20, 2012, at 5:54 AM, Ed Kelly wrote:
> > >
> > > > OK, well in fact the problem was not arrays updating. It was all the
> > other GUI objects (sliders, mknob, num2 etc) that would freeze, and this is
> > running on GNU/Linux. This was a real problem, since I could change them
> > with the mouse, but the results of the change were not shown (e.g. the
> > pattern-number in one of my sequencers).
> > > >
> > > > Changing sys_pollgui() did fix this, so perhaps what we are actually
> > dealing with is two separate issues, one concerning arrays and another
> > concerning the rest of the GUI.
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >> I tracked down the commit that seems to be causing the problem that
> > Porres
> > > >> reported. I think its a totally different problem related to
> > Pd-0.43's new
> > > >> portaudio implementation. It does not affect GNU/Linux, which
> > doesn't use
> > > >> protaudio. I haven't tested it on Windows.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3573542&group_id=55736&atid=478070
> > > >>
> > > >> Ed, if part of your problem is arrays that stop updating and you're
> > running
> > > >> on Mac OS X or maybe Windows, this might also be affecting you.
> > > >>
> > > >> .hc
> > > >>
> > > >> On Dec 17, 2012, at 3:12 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> OK... except that I don't know why this works yet... by which i
> > mean, I
> > > >>> don't think it's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 is returning 1s
> > > >> on every
> > > >>> tick unless teh GUI itself is sending hundreds of messages per
> > second down
> > > >>> to Pd.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Reducing the average volume of trafic won't solve the underlying
> > > >> problem, it
> > > >>> will just make it harder to recreate it :)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> M
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner
> > wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I've seen similar things, like with the patches that Porres
> > > >> submitted. It
> > > >>>> looks like what's happening is that when there are too many updates
> > > >> being
> > > >>>> sent, a lot of them get dropped. Its pretty easy to get 250k per
> > > >> second of
> > > >>>> Tcl code being sent to the GUI, so we're asking a lot of the Tcl
> > > >> parser and
> > > >>>> compiler. The solution is to reduce the amount of Tcl code that
> > gets
> > > >> sent and
> > > >>>> also use Tcl procs to handle bigger chunks of stuff so that we can
> > take
> > > >>>> advantage of Tcl caching parsed and compiled procs.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> .hc
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On 12/16/2012 01:47 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> > > >>>>> This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> int sys_pollgui(void)
> > > >>>>> {
> > > >>>>> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
> > > >>>>> }
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> with:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> int sys_pollgui(void)
> > > >>>>> {
> > > >>>>> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
> > > >>>>> }
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> It's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 - which polls for input
> > > >> from GUI and
> > > >>>>> other FDs - isn't ever returning "idle" (zero) so
> > > >> that sys_poll_togui() never
> > > >>>>> gets called.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than
> > > >> bewail the fact
> > > >>>>> that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished
> > > >> that the
> > > >>>>> sound was still working :)
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Miller
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +0000, Ed Kelly wrote:
> > > >>>>>> Hi List,
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I'm not going to say whether this is a
> > > >> "recurrent" problem as it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the
> > > >> GUI has affected it...
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP
> > > >> GUIs, and I find the following problem occurs. There comes a point
> > where the GUI
> > > >> objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am
> > wondering if there
> > > >> is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd
> > is making
> > > >> some kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm
> > > >> gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to
> > know
> > > >> how or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or
> > by setting
> > > >> flags on the command line.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance
> > > >> time, since the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers
> > which I will
> > > >> not want to program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to
> > give you an
> > > >> idea. The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially
> > quadtracker
> > > >> (which I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as I can
> > go now).
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid),
> > > >> Pd-0.43-4, lots of externals compiled and loaded.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Warm wishes,
> > > >>>>>> Ed
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with
> > > >> dynamics!
> > > >>>>>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> > > >>>>>
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