[PD] Nettles. Was: cyclone/maxmode functionality usage

Fred Jan Kraan fjkraan at xs4all.nl
Fri Jun 12 22:26:37 CEST 2015


Hi Alexandre,

>>  I try to keep the current state of cyclone here:
>> http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases/0.1-alpha55 
>> (never mind the 55, it wouldn't go away).
> 
> hmm, but I see it still has alpha55 there

Finally I found a way to create an 0.1-alpha57 page, so it is now more
as it should be. The alpha55 is the latest real Pd-extended release.
> 
> great news about the rest
> 
> really excited about this update


Greetings,

Fred Jan
> 
> 2015-06-12 3:34 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan at xs4all.nl
> <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>:
> 
>     Hi Alexandre,
> 
>     > Howdy, maybe this got lost amongst the millions of message I've been
>     > sending, sorry to insist, but I'm really curious about it.
>     >
>     > Moreover, as long as we're on it, I've been creating some abstractions
>     > as clones of max objects, I was able to do most of these nestles, and
>     > also [scale] / [scale~] and I just did [rect~] and [tri~]. I wonder if I
>     > could propose them to be included in cyclone, or if it has to be objects.
> 
>     The last days I have been looking at what could be done with the
>     original nettles. In the end it was quite simple to get them working as
>     a library object and create a suitable help-patch. Both are checked in
>     in svn, but the original cyclone build system will not build the
>     library. Katja created a new makefile system as a drop-in replacement
>     for the Pd-extended build system, which will be checked in soon.
> 
>     I will try to create new binary distributions, usable with the
>     deken-plugin somewhere next week. These will contain the nettles. I try
>     to keep the current state of cyclone here:
>     http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases/0.1-alpha55 (never mind
>     the 55, it wouldn't go away).
> 
>     Any object or abstraction that implements something present in Max(5)
>     could be part of cyclone.
>     >
>     > Cheers
> 
>     Greetings,
> 
>     Fred Jan
>     >
>     > 2015-06-07 9:41 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com <mailto:porres at gmail.com>
>     > <mailto:porres at gmail.com <mailto:porres at gmail.com>>>:
>     >
>     >     yeah, I can't load these objects for some reason, I wonder why is
>     >     that, I'm on mac os and extended 42, any idea?
>     >
>     >     I didn't know they were in cyclone... But I remember we discussed
>     >     about them, not all of them are part of zexy actually. Zexy's only
>     >     got 3 out of these, whixh are: <~, >~ and ==~
>     >
>     >     It doesn't have the remaining 9 objects: !-, !/,  !-~, !/~, !=~,
>     >     <=~,  >=~, %~, +=~
>     >
>     >     I think it's nice to have them, specially the [+=~] object which I
>     >     didn't know about.
>     >
>     >     So, the [maxmode] object loads these other objects, huh? I tried
>     >     loading them with it and nothing happened.
>     >
>     >     It seems weird to me that they have to depend on [maxmode], why
>     >     can't you just get their code and make it available outside [maxmode]?
>     >
>     >     cheers
>     >
>     >
>     >     2015-06-07 8:55 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>
>     >     <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>>:
>     >
>     >         Hi Alexandre,
>     >
>     >         The nettles are the cyclone bin-ops objects we discussed
>     before:
>     >         !-, !/, ==~, !=~, <~, <=~, >~, >=~, !-~, !/~, %~, +=~
>     >         They are part of the cyclone library object, which may or
>     may not be
>     >         part of your distribution. The source code is in
>     >         externals/miXed/cyclone/shadow/nettles.c, hence the name.
>     >
>     >         As it is a subset of what is in zexy, it is not very important
>     >         to make
>     >         them available again.
>     >
>     >         Here a link to my copy of the original cyclone page:
>     >       
>      http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cyclone_site/cyclone.html.
>     >
>     >         Greetings,
>     >
>     >         Fred Jan
>     >
>     >         On 2015-06-06 01:06 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>     >         > So [maxmode] basically loads useless empty "dummy"
>     objects for
>     >         more
>     >         > compability.
>     >         >
>     >         > Well, my two cents is that the idea of having a library with
>     >         several
>     >         > objects that exist in Max and not in Pd is great and
>     awesome.
>     >         It serves
>     >         > well in making both worlds somewhat compatible. But
>     regarding
>     >         opening
>     >         > the same files/patches, MAX and PD are just growing out
>     to be very
>     >         > incompatible projects, so it's rather healthy to forget
>     about
>     >         forcing
>     >         > any compatibility of this type - it's just insane. It
>     may have
>     >         been
>     >         > reasonable back in MAX 4.6, but nowadays, with MAX 7 and
>     >         everything,
>     >         > seems pointless.
>     >         >
>     >         > More than that, to answer your question, it's pretty obvious
>     >         to me that
>     >         > no human being is using this...
>     >         >
>     >         > Now, please tell about these /bin-ops //"nettles"/, what are
>     >         these?
>     >         >
>     >         > cheers
>     >         >
>     >         > 2015-06-05 18:15 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan
>     <fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>
>     >         <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>
>     >         > <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>
>     <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>>>:
>     >         >
>     >         >     Hi Alexandre,
>     >         >
>     >         >     >> No code will be removed, just the maxmode object and
>     >         related
>     >         >     >> library objects will not be build anymore.
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     > So it'll remove many objects from the library, right?
>     >         >
>     >         >     What will be removed is the actual maxmode object,
>     the bin-ops
>     >         >     "nettles", ~150 dummy objects and the hammer and sickle
>     >         libraries. The
>     >         >     hammer and sickle libraries contain the objects
>     which are
>     >         also available
>     >         >     as separate objects.
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     > I'm having a hard time understanding this [maxmode]
>     >         thing/object, can
>     >         >     > you give us an example on how to use it?
>     >         >
>     >         >     As I understand it, the purpose of the [maxmode]
>     object is
>     >         to make
>     >         >     importing and converting Max/MSP 4.6 patches more
>     >         convenient. The dummy
>     >         >     objects do not do anything, but the patch will load
>     >         without errors. The
>     >         >     idea is to replace the dummies with abstractions or
>     other
>     >         objects. The
>     >         >     dummies were the objects in Max/MSP4.6 but not in
>     >         Pd-vanilla or cyclone.
>     >         >
>     >         >     It might have made sense when Max/MSP 4.6 were
>     common, but
>     >         that is a
>     >         >     long time ago.
>     >         >
>     >         >     The original cyclone page is gone from the site, but I
>     >         made a copy just
>     >         >     in time:
>     >         >
>     >         
>     http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cyclone_site/cyclone.html.
>     >         >
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     > cheers
>     >         >
>     >         >     Greetings,
>     >         >
>     >         >     Fred Jan
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     > 2015-05-01 17:48 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan
>     >         <fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>
>     <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>
>     >         <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>
>     <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>>
>     >         >     > <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl
>     <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl> <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl
>     <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>
>     >         <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>
>     <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl <mailto:fjkraan at xs4all.nl>>>>>:
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     >     Hi All,
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     >     Is anyone using the 'maxmode' object and
>     >         functionality of the
>     >         >     >     Cyclone library?
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     >     The maxmode adds 162 dummy objects, which make
>     >         importing of Max/MSP
>     >         >     >     patches more convenient. Note these are
>     Max/MSP 4.6
>     >         patches, already
>     >         >     >     supported in Pd-vanilla, not the more recent file
>     >         formats. In
>     >         >     >     addition several binop signal objects are loaded,
>     >         the message and
>     >         >     >     signal objects are loaded from library objects.
>     >         Normal cyclone usage
>     >         >     >     are individual objects.
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     >     Because we are planning to switch to a new build
>     >         system, usable for all
>     >         >     >     Puredata external libraries, it would be an
>     >         opportunity to simplify the
>     >         >     >     building process and remove potential unused
>     >         functionality.
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     >     No code will be removed, just the maxmode
>     object and
>     >         related library
>     >         >     >     objects will not be build anymore.
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     >     Fred Jan
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     >     P.S. The original cyclone page went off-line
>     >         sometime this year, but
>     >         >     >     here is a copy:
>     >         >     >
>     >         
>     http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cyclone_site/cyclone.html
>     >         >     >
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