[PD] New deken feature, create system user folder (was how-do-i-install-externals-and-help-files page (was Re: Linux Global folder for externals)

[me.grimm]

>> So I'm now leaning on actually disregarding  ~/Library as a good choice
for creating and using as an external destination...

+1 on this...

i just had a classroom of students navigate to ~/Library and create
~/Library/Pd .... its quite a pain to teach some of these basic skills. for
some reason this particular class had security concerns with create such a
folder (maybe because last assessment we got into a
lengthy anonymity/snowden/darkweb/hacking discussion)....

anyway was this not all discussed and decided upon in pdx dev days?

i am not sure about deken new functions but unless its in millers core it
doesn't matter seeing thats where i have students download from.

BTW arduino and processing also both install libraries in:

~/Documents

and as porres might say "just saying"

m



On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Oh, and it's not like Pd doesn't already write stuff in "~/Library", it
> actually does create files in "~/Library/preferences", so it's not like
> it's a sacred ground it can't touch... I'm still yet to understand what is
> the issue of Pd creating a folder in here...
>
> Though I can agree it is a rather unusual place to go. Most softwares
> won't do it, and the reason this is being discussed is just that Pd happens
> to have that folder as a standard path in the first place... so it's coming
> from Pd for some reason. Now, I can see most softwares prefer to use other
> folders in the user area, outside this hidden ~/Library folder. For
> instance, audiosculpt went for ~/Applications. Max and Native Instruments
> went for ~/Documents. The place to install externals for Max is in
> ~/Documents/Max/Packages.
>
> There's also the "shared" folder. I see Max and Native Instruments there
> too. So if you want to install something for all users, that folder seems
> to be the one to go.
>
> So I'm now leaning on actually disregarding  ~/Library as a good choice
> for creating and using as an external destination... not sure yet why
> there's a resistance it's a bad place to go... but if this is why, well,
> maybe a better option like these other folders would do.
>
> That would actually work and solve thew other problems I was raising,
> where you can't navigate to the ~/Library folder if you want to add it in
> your "Path".
>
> This is all for Mac OS of course, and we should check the options for
> other systems.
>
> cheers
>
> 2017-03-04 19:59 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com>:
>
>> 2017-03-04 15:54 GMT-03:00 Roman Haefeli <reduzent at gmail.com>:
>>
>>>
>>> I really can't share your notion that things are complex from a user
>>> perspective. You can use Deken out of the box now.
>>
>>
>> Yes, with the new feature you can, and you couldn't before! My point is
>> not that it won't work, but that it can still be further improved beyond
>> the advancement being made right now.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Windows >= 7 and on any Linux I know the only user writable option
>>> is the user specific folder. I know now this is not true on Macs
>>> depending on what check boxes you checked in the system preferences for
>>
>> the user.
>>
>>
>> It works out of the box for macs, you don't need to set anything up,
>> that's my experience... but I guess you can alter the system and prevent it.
>>
>> So, our thing is that Pd has all these folders as "Standard Paths" but
>> not all are usable or writeable. Actually, besides the application folder,
>> they're not even created by the software. So we need to find a common
>> ground and it seems to be the user folder. So that's a good option for a
>> default setting that's consistent for all operating systems. Good.
>>
>>
>>> As far as I know, most software doesn't write any user specific stuff
>>> at installation time. How should it know which users are going to use
>>> the software and what happens if a user is added _after_ installation?
>>>
>>
>> If a user is installing the software, then it can deduce that this user
>> is going to use the software. In the same ~/Library folder here on my mac
>> is where the */Audio* folder is, including the *MIDI Drivers* and
>> *Plug-ins*. All plugins installers write in here and install the plugins
>> you can use in Ableton Live, for instance. And Ableton Live has no problem
>> in searching for the plugins over there. That's an example...
>>
>> It totally makes sense to create any directories and/or write files
>>> when they are actually needed. Pd doesn't need /Users/alex/Library/Pd so
>>> why should it create it?
>>
>>
>> How come it doesn't need it? Isn't it one of Pd's Standasr Paths for
>> starters?More over, isn't the folder we're realizing is the only writeable
>> and best option for all platforms? What do you mean? Sorry, I don't get it.
>>
>>
>>> It's hard if you want to do specific stuff that requires special
>>> knowledge.
>>
>>
>> All that is hard can be made easier... I just suggested a few solutions.
>>
>>
>>> I don't see how it is hard if you want to just download and
>>> use an external.
>>
>>
>> There are different options for downloading and using an external. Right
>> now, this is not well documented or made easy to achieve. Ok, we got one
>> step further with this update and at least we can download and use it.
>>
>> Having said that, loading stuff from libraries correctly is still
>>> complex, more complex than necessary, in my opinion.
>>>
>>
>> great, then we're on the same track after all.
>>
>>
>>> I wish calling the library by name would be enough, regardless of its
>>> internal layout.
>>>
>>
>> +1 on that
>>
>> cheers
>>
>
>
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-- 
____________________
m.e.grimm, m.f.a, ed.m.
syracuse u., tc3
megrimm.net
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