[PD] update cyclone debian packages - functionality breakage & coordinating takeover (was: installing pd via apt-get)

Alexandre Torres Porres porres at gmail.com
Mon Dec 16 02:51:50 CET 2019

Em dom., 22 de set. de 2019 às 04:10, IOhannes m zmölnig <zmoelnig at iem.at>

> Am 21. September 2019 08:45:38 MESZ schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres <
> porres at gmail.com>:
> I see that puredata-core has cyclone, but an old version, how can  include
> the latest cyclone?
> Debian (and derivatives) ship "cyclone" for more than a decade. Because
> your fork of cyclone
> - breaks functionality (starting with missing "cyclist")
> - and the takeover was not very well coordinated
> ... i have not switched (yet) the Debian packages to your upstream.
> I think the biggest issue for me is (still) the uncoordinated takeover.
> if that is resolved, the Debian packages might (and i don't see why not)
> switch

Howdy. Not sure I get the takeover issue and how to solve it or not. I
think breakage is more serious but we hope to solve both issues so debian
packages can switch.

Regarding breakage, cyclone 0.3's goal wasn't to break stuff. If that
happened, it should be reported as a regression bug. As for cyclist, we
brought it up in
https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2016-10/116633.html - we
questioned if anyone ever used and how it wasn't there for the binaries in
alpha-57 and 0.2 beta1 (when we forked). It had been removed with [maxmode]
and it wasn't our intention to take it out. We asked if and how we should
bring it back as we didn't really know how to do it or how it would work,
as it was part of [maxmode]. Anyway, the discussion didn't get anywhere and
cyclist was kept out as we just didn't know what to do. But we can put it
back, no problem. Help is needed though.

As for other known breakages, cyclone 0.4 announced how Capital Letter
aliases were removed (for objecs like [MouseState]). The truth is that
aliases weren't working for linux in cyclone 0.3 as a bug report informed
us. I actually reckon it was a lazy attitude to remove support instead of
trying to fix this (we found a rather complicated solution we didn't go
for). And since there was a talk in the list how this could be phased out
(katja mentioned that and so did cyclone 0.3), I thought we could go for
it. Nonetheless, nowadays I also feel like we could take our time and try
and fix this in an easy way to avoid breakages, so cyclone 0.5 could bring
this back and just leave it there. Other breakage issues like the cyclist
one can be solved.

So, bottom line is, we hope to deal with any uncoordinated issue or
possible breakages. As for the coordination issue, I'd like to understand
what it involves. As for the other issue, please report of other breakage
issues if they are and you know of.

For the record, changes we made are in a changelog currently available with
cyclone, find it here:
all we did was fix bugs and update objects (plus add new objects and
rewrite the documentation). Again, the goal was not to break stuff.
Actually, we restored a change that had been made, which I consider a
breakage: the non alphanumeric objects were restored into a 'cyclone'
library binary as originally.

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