[PD] mickfuzz's Pure Data FLOSS Manual, a message on behalf of Pd's community

[ol at ogeem.be]

hi,
I can read your criticism, and agree it's not fully updated and needs 
care,
but no it's not a translation of the old En flossmanual, it was totaly 
writen from scratch with another approach ... more didactic / less tech 
ref in the structure

I'm not in the position to contribute to the new english one in term of 
time (I'm still a non institutional freelancer intermitent new media 
artist not supported by any national/regional institutions nor by high 
trade crypto capitalism) and probably "expertise" (I'm too "generalist" 
to talk as an expert, nor developper of any proper published 
external/abstraction code neither, but more as experienced user with >15 
years and diversity of usage).

But I could translate/port the new relevant content from an english 
manual that is uptodate elsewhere in this old/new french manual that is 
still mainly correct from a teaching pov (I still use it with success 
with new persons)

again your criticism while right concentrate on the technicalities (how 
to install this/that function) and do not look at the underlying 
structure of the teaching that is "how does pd works" ... "basically" 
... which this french book tried to address first (then talks about 
technicalities)

+ we really need other language resources, so I'll concentrate on 
maintaining this one in french (incl. your remarks), as this english 
centered technological culture is _really_ exluding many people totaly 
capable to handle such tools but not at ease with the english language 
used as "lingua franca" (what a twist of history! ;) )

best,

Olm-e

On 2021-11-22 18:13, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:

> Em seg., 22 de nov. de 2021 às 11:33, <ol at ogeem.be> escreveu:
> 
>> hello,
>> 
>> I would agree with this (good to have other sources)
>> and will add that the French version has been updated to the 
>> latest(ish)
>> state of the pd ecosystem
> 
> Hi, well, first, sorry to be harsh criticism I'll bring here, but I 
> strongly disagree you have an updated version of the manual. I've been 
> checking the changes. The french manual has a different introduction 
> and talks about the latest vanilla and forks, but all of the remains is 
> basically the same. For instance, the installation still considers 
> 'Pd-extended' 0.39' => 
> https://fr.flossmanuals.net/puredata/installation-sur-mac-os-x/
> 
> When talking about OSC, there's no mentioning of Pd's internals that 
> can handle it. Not to mention that it is quite outdated in general when 
> not mentioning now the quite old feature that is [clone]
> 
> You don't explain how to use deken or even mention it. Pd's actual 
> manual is not referred and it includes lots of important and current 
> information on how to handle externals. When talking about libraries, 
> you have information on pd-extended's [import] object and nothing about 
> [declare]. Many of the external libraries you have on the manual simply 
> do not show how you can install them in the first place. And GEM seem 
> to have issues on macOS (I don't really know much about this) and is a 
> bit outdated. There's nothing about new externals, like [ofelia], for 
> instance...
> 
> I can't read french, but what I see is that this is a variant of the 
> english floss manual centered in pd-extended, but with a new small 
> introduction that talks about vanilla and a couple of forks and with 
> the pd-extended external list removed (which is something pretty nice 
> it had!). I think this is a good example of parallel efforts that 
> despite the advantages and good it brings (like being a great resource 
> for french speakers) end up generating noise. We now have an official 
> Manual that not many users are aware of. An english and abandoned FLOSS 
> Manual that is actually centered in Pd-Extended and totally outdated, 
> and a french version of the same manual that is not the same manual at 
> all (but people will assume that it is the exact same thing but in 
> french) and it sits somewhere between a pd-extended manual and an 
> outdated Pd manual.
> 
> It's ok if we want to go back and write a new FLOSS Manual, but please, 
> let us do that then. Just keep this as the french version of the old 
> FLOSS Manual (centered in Pd-extended) - in fatc I'm trying to rename 
> it as a pd-extended manual.
> 
> And if we start with a new english one, we can then think about 
> translating it to other languages. And people who want to translate it 
> to other languages should collaborate with the english one. If they're 
> working on new things on a different language, they can also bring it 
> to the original 'master' one in english to avoid noise.
> 
>> and will be updated when / where necessary
>> (I'll try to keep it up) to keep a current (french) ressource 
>> available
>> with a didactic introduction to concepts (and not just a technical
>> reference)
> 
> Well, I think this is still quite far from being updated, so it needed 
> to be updated now in things I've pointed, but again, I can't read 
> french and help more, and we could work instead ogether on a new 
> english official version first, where more people can collaborate 
> (including you) before we have it in other languages.
> 
> I don't know what you mean by "a didactic introduction to concepts (and 
> not just a technical reference)". If you mean Pd's manual/documentation 
> is just too technical and not didactic, we can discuss about improving 
> on this matter.
> 
> cheers
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