[PD] some gui objects with grey background in help patches?

Alexandre Torres Porres porres at gmail.com
Wed Nov 23 03:15:38 CET 2022

Em ter., 22 de nov. de 2022 às 18:00, Peter P. <peterparker at fastmail.com>

> I would indeed see an improvement to refrain
> from colors ("extra grey stuff") where it doesn't highlight things.

Ok. I can see that.

But now problem changed again. It's not "*color is bad because a student
may get confused*" anymore. I said this shouldn't be a concern and you
might agree because it seems colors are ok "*as long as they mean or
highlight something*".

You see, I wanted to propose a solution that could make everyone happy. If
the problem was that the default color is white, and people would ask "*why
is this bang grey unlike the default white color?*", or people would have a
hard time changing the color of something they copied from a help file that
is not the default color they're already supposedly using, I thought I'd
propose that the default colors of iemguis were light gray then. That would
theoretically fix this pedagogical issue. Not only that, but the default
color of [cnv] is also already the light grey color I use. We get a full
consistency pack. This would really solve the problem.

But the actual issue seems something else, that colors must "mean"
something, otherwise it must be "white"... If so, we're back to the first
thing I assumed, that this is just a matter of aesthetics, of taste, hence,
it's quite subjective. Not that this is "bad", you're free to come here and
say you hate it for whatever subjective reason. It's not invalid but it
makes a difference if something is based on objective real life problems
and examples (like "*now all of my students are lost and my course flow is
really ruined, all of them are complaining about this*") or if it's
something like "*hey, I didn't like it, it bothers me personally, I like
things to be plain white unless they are trying to tell me something
special*". We can get the discussion going in a much better flow with
honesty and clarity.

I'd be onboard to change the default color if others don't mind, but if
that is not the case and you (and others who are sad) are just personally
annoyed, I'm sorry, but there would need to be a broader consensus that
this is bad. With my facebook poll and others here saying they either
appreciate my efforts or are not particularly annoyed by this particularly.
There is only about 5% clear opposition and request to change this to plain
white, which I don't think makes a good case for you. You gotta respect a
little democracy. You questioned the facebook poll as if it was answered by
a class of people that shouldn't be considered, but I hope you accept it.

We can keep waiting for others to join in and see where this goes. I might
be proven wrong. I might be missing something maybe (please, anyone, tell
me then), but this seems settled to me.

What do you say?

I can live with many things, including all shades of grey.


> Just trying to improve things (like everyone else I guess).

Yeah, I can say my aesthetical choices do aim this purpose of improving
things on the behalf of the community, taking into consideration the
feedback I've heard countless times over the years from many people
complaining about Vanilla's help file and praising extended's (for
instance). I pursue this goal with passion and clinical obsession. You
won't believe the minor details and hundreds and hundreds of edits I've
made to change minute details, like moving object boxes a pixel to the left
so connections are perfectly aligned. I don't do this only from untreated
OCD, I do strongly believe that all many minor unnoticeable details do sum
up and amount to perceivable results that improve this like clearness,
readability, comfortness, making it more appealing in general... and it
seems to be working...

Take that into consideration if you lose this one. If you can live with
this, please do and note that an overall perception is that this is
considered as an improvement.


> P
> * Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27 at hotmail.com> [2022-11-22 21:18]:
> > Ok, this can be discussed and improved.
> >
> > So now the issue is just about some *extra* grey stuff?
> >
> > (but you can live with it, right?)
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
> >
> > On 22/11/2022 16:15, Peter P. wrote:
> > > I am putting up a proposal about using colors in vanilla the help
> > > patches for discussion. I think these patches should
> > >
> > > - Emphasize and encourage users to use the color features of GUI
> > >    elements by showing that in their respective help patches.
> > > - Use colors in vanilla help patches to highlight essential objects
> and actions, for
> > >    example to indicate the one single bang button I need to press to
> start an example
> > >    therein.
> > > - Stick to the non-color versions otherwise when no highlighting is
> > >    necessary, as for example the toggles for loudspeaker channels in
> > >    testtone.pd
> > >
> > > Looking forward to a fruitful discussion,
> > > P
> > >
> > >
> > >
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