[PD] Preset management for Pd Vanilla

Sun Nov 12 14:52:42 CET 2023

Interesting. Will investigate. Thanks.

Best,

Ico

-- 
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
ico at vt.edu

ci.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 08:32 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com>
wrote:

> this [image: Screen Shot 2023-11-12 at 10.31.08.png]
>
> Em dom., 12 de nov. de 2023 às 09:40, Ico Bukvic <ico at vt.edu> escreveu:
>
>> So, what happens when you get to run Pd-L2Ork on 10.14?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Ico
>>
>> --
>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
>> Director, Creativity + Innovation
>> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology
>>
>> Virginia Tech
>> Creative Technologies in Music
>> School of Performing Arts – 0141
>> Blacksburg, VA 24061
>> (540) 231-6139
>> ico at vt.edu
>>
>> ci.icat.vt.edu
>> l2ork.icat.vt.edu
>> ico.bukvic.net
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 00:29 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, sure, thanks, it's definitely worth looking since you already have
>>> it working and all. I'm all up for it of course. BTW, I cannot run the
>>> latest pd-l2ork on my 10.14.6 macOS, but I'm having a look at Purr Data to
>>> remember how it rolls... I was never able to really fully understand it.
>>>
>>> Let me see if I have the slightest idea correctly. It seems you have
>>> [preset_hub] that manages (stores and recalls) presets. And you have the
>>> [preset_node] object that connects to GUIs and things you want to store
>>> data from. BTW, seems like a more "Vanilla like" convention would be a
>>> single [preset] object, and you could have [preset hub] and [preset node].
>>> Anyway, if a change to the core is needed and a whole preset system layout
>>> is to be provided, I wonder if we could also have "preset node names" as
>>> built in symbols in GUI objects. And it'd be great if we could also have
>>> interpolation and morphing, with exponential curves, as in my system in
>>> ELSE, with the [preset hub] object.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>> Em dom., 12 de nov. de 2023 às 01:37, Ico Bukvic <ico at vt.edu> escreveu:
>>>
>>>> I encourage Miller and the vanilla community to explore pd-l2ork's
>>>> preset_hub and preset_node (see x_preset.c). It will require pd to adopt
>>>> keeping glist consistent across various operations (cut/copy/undo/redo
>>>> etc.). Once done, it allows for presetting of individual objects through
>>>> various contexts that are both embeddable in the patch or can be saved into
>>>> a file. Most importantly, this mechanism is able to distinguish between
>>>> multiple instances of the same abstraction.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Ico
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
>>>> Director, Creativity + Innovation
>>>> Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD
>>>> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology
>>>>
>>>> Virginia Tech
>>>> Creative Technologies in Music
>>>> School of Performing Arts – 0141
>>>> Blacksburg, VA 24061
>>>> (540) 231-6139
>>>> ico at vt.edu
>>>>
>>>> ci.icat.vt.edu
>>>> l2ork.icat.vt.edu
>>>> ico.bukvic.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 7:58 PM Alexandre Torres Porres <
>>>> porres at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Em sáb., 11 de nov. de 2023 às 16:11, Alexandre Torres Porres <
>>>>> porres at gmail.com> escreveu:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Or yet a new functionality for [pdcontrol] if not in [send] or a
>>>>>> whole new object
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A "retrieve" method to [value] would actually make sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I'm giving ideas and most probably most of you don't really
>>>>> know about my preset system in ELSE in detail. The key element is
>>>>> [savestate], which saves the data in a patch, which are values and receive
>>>>> destinations. So I'm not thinking of another object for preset management,
>>>>> just using this existing one for that, as a side product. The data is saved
>>>>> in a [text] object, which is the best plase to store such a thing and it's
>>>>> the 2nd key element per se.
>>>>>
>>>>> The "retrieve" function is to "grab" the data from objects connected
>>>>> or bound to existing "receive" objects/symbols. This makes things much
>>>>> easier and I hope things are clearer.
>>>>>
>>>>> [value] seems now like a good candidate for this functionality. It
>>>>> would require the injection of a lot of code for this, but maybe that's ok,
>>>>> not sure if this is a good reason to create a whole new object. And it fits
>>>>> into the idea of [value], which can already send a value to another object,
>>>>> so why can't it also 'grab'/'retrieve'?
>>>>>
>>>>> And also, the external abstraction that I mentioned could also be part
>>>>> of the 'extra' library that comes with the Pd distribution, which already
>>>>> has some abstractions anyway. While we're at it, I was already hoping to
>>>>> include yet another abstraction there, a biquad coefficient calculator for
>>>>> the [biquad~] object.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 at 16:08 Alexandre Torres Porres <
>>>>>> porres at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Else’s has morphing, interpolation, etc and is an abstraction that
>>>>>>> uses [savestate] and [text] mainly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It also relies on an external, [retrieve], similar to [grab] from
>>>>>>> MAX. This one gets data from objects connected to named [receive] objects.
>>>>>>> One could make a vanilla version without it, but it’d be much more
>>>>>>> complicated. Or we could have a new [grab] / [retrieve] like object in
>>>>>>> Vanilla, and I could build a Vanilla external abstraction and bring my
>>>>>>> system to vanilla like that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We maybe don’t even need a new object and could have something like
>>>>>>> an extra functionality in [send] where it can get things back. I think some
>>>>>>> net objects work like that and it would hopefully not be too weird or
>>>>>>> crazy, and maybe people would likewise abuse this for other use cases.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems like a very not much intrusive addition that opens the door
>>>>>>> for this. What do you people think?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 at 08:39 KHM t.hartmann <t.hartmann at khm.de>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +1 as well, for a native preset system.
>>>>>>>> Best would be the possibility for interpolation between values in
>>>>>>>> various ways, from jump to customisable interpolation curves.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dr. Tobias Hartmann
>>>>>>>> Künstlerisch-Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter / Assistant Professor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> exMedia - Sound
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kunsthochschule für Medien Köln (KHM)
>>>>>>>> Academy of Media Arts Cologne
>>>>>>>> Peter-Welter-Platz 2
>>>>>>>> 50676 Köln
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> t.hartmann at khm.de
>>>>>>>> +49 (0) 221 20189 228
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> www.khm.de
>>>>>>>> www.exmedia.khm.de
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> www.hartmanntobias.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 11.11.2023 um 12:02 schrieb hans w. koch <hansw.koch at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +1 for a native preset system. thats the one thing i miss
>>>>>>>> thinking back of the times i used max/msp (particularily the morphing
>>>>>>>> feature).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> advantage over else: it can then be used in PdParty e.g. :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>>> hans
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 11.11.2023 um 06:47 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres <
>>>>>>>> porres at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm revisiting this. I'm proud of my presets system in ELSE but I
>>>>>>>> think Pd needs something natively. What do you people think and say?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 14:27, Alexandre Torres Porres <
>>>>>>>> porres at gmail.com> escreveu:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 01:35, Alexandre Torres Porres <
>>>>>>>> porres at gmail.com> escreveu:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's the "morphing" or "interpolation" thing that I may be still
>>>>>>>> neglecting and thinking that using things "line" objects is just as fine,
>>>>>>>> but let's see. I'll also look into how max does interpolation, someone
>>>>>>>> already told me that, I think I have an idea for that too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I neglected the fact that [line] doesn't work with lists :) so I
>>>>>>>> created an object that does it called [morph]. Hence, this takes care of
>>>>>>>> preset transitions. I don't think it's necessary to put this feature inside
>>>>>>>> the preset object as it makes it more complicated and in the end it's good
>>>>>>>> this is a separate object as it's also useful outside the preset system and
>>>>>>>> can be used on its own to morph into different arrays and stuff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm doing something similar for interpolation, with another object
>>>>>>>> to allow one to manually interpolate between values and lists of values,
>>>>>>>> also incorporating that feature from Max. This should all be up in my
>>>>>>>> repository this weeked.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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