[PD] Pd performance at TED

[Pedro Oliveira]

Hi Patrice,

I think you didn't get my point... I mentioned Coltrane as an example of a
musician that extrapolated his own instrument from the 12-tone idea
(particularly from *A Love Supreme* on).

However, I think that open musical structures are a more complex subject to
put it into the "improvisation" badge. For instance, if you take Terry
Riley's "In C", to name a well-known piece, its structure is fairly open,
although no player improvises. This is also used in many musical pieces and
it was discussed even by Umberto Eco as *open works*...* *and correct me if
I'm wrong, but I think they differ from improvisation...

And again, what "whatever he likes" mean when you're using Pd? If you're the
composer *and* the performer, you're free to put whatever pleases you
aesthetically but that doesn't consist of improvisation, as I see. When you
design a patch in Pd you don't have *all* possibilities in your hands at any
given time, and that is why I think the idea of improvisation is, perhaps,
misinterpreted.

I'm not postulating an ultimate truth or mentality whatsoever, I'm just..
speculating. :)

Cheers!


On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Patrice Colet <colet.patrice at free.fr>wrote:

>  If the musical structure you are playing on is opened,
> also when the player is free to put whatever he likes,
> you can call it an improvisation.
>  You don't need to be Coltrane to improvise,
>  what the hell is that mentality????
>
>
> ----- "Pedro Oliveira" <hello at partidoalto.net> a écrit :
>
> > Jumping on the discussion (not a frequent poster, but I do follow), I
> > must say I agree with Marco... but one question (kinda related, but at
> > the same time isn't): what would consist, then, "improvisation" when
> > using Pd?
> >
> >
> > I mean, if you consider free improvisation the only thing I can think
> > of, in five seconds, is "live coding". However, if you think of an
> > instrument there are also "pre-given" structures one must follow, that
> > is, pitch range, playability, timbre and so on. Roughly, with
> > traditional instruments (from western tradition) you can't go that far
> > away from the 12-tone paradigm (of course, a few exceptions here and
> > there with guys like Otomo Yoshihide for the guitar or Coltrane/Evan
> > Parker for Saxophone), but then, again... what is true improvisation
> > in the context of Pd, Max, whatever?
> >
> >
> > I'm asking because, like I said, I do agree with Marco - recombining
> > patterns doesn't consist of improvisation for me as well... and if
> > improvisation in that case consists of playing notes over the riffs
> > and patterns, why use a gestural controller? Just for the sake of
> > technology?
> >
> >
> > Such topic interests me a lot, I'd love to hear your thoughts :)
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Marco Donnarumma < devel at thesaddj.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Ingo,
> > thanks for your explanation, I think to understand how he's playing.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The movement looks to me secondary - it's more like a dance movement
> > and not
> > too much music control.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This might be a very personal take, but if movement is secondary in
> > gestural control, why one uses gestural control at all?
> > I believe that effective and ancillary gestures are what reinforce our
> > perception of an instrument as a musical tool, rather than a mere
> > "device".
> > Imho many gestural controllers would benefit of a better focus on this
> > aspect.
> >
> >
> > How would you play such melodic lines (like those jazz licks) - in
> > time -
> > simply with gestural control?
> >
> >
> > Setting an array of preset chords, triggering them with multiple
> > switches, deploying a timeline which holds the trigger until the onset
> > of the next beat or quarter, etc...
> > I guess the list here could come up with many other methods.
> > I'm not saying that's trivial, I only think that it's not the "future"
> > as it is presented in the video.
> >
> >
> > How would you improvise on scales, pattern or
> > harmonic structures? After all he's a jazz player calling his music
> > "beat
> > jazz".
> >
> >
> >
> > What do you call improvisation in this case?
> > How much is he improvising?
> > I can imagine he's "improvising" with the melodic lines, but playing
> > samples and presets chords doesn't match my own definition of
> > improvisation.
> >
> >
> > cheers,
> > M
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Marco Donnarumma
> > Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer,
> > Instructor
> > ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing)
> > The University of Edinburgh, UK
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com
> > Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net |
> > http://www.flxer.net
> > Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Pedro Oliveira
> > www.partidoalto.net
> > soundcloud.com/iburiedpaul
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
> --
> Patrice Colet
>



-- 
Pedro Oliveira
www.partidoalto.net
soundcloud.com/iburiedpaul
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/attachments/20110620/9ba8a33f/attachment-0001.htm>